Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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I can confirm that. I remember reading reports from last year, that US EDA companies and their top executives/workers, were finding some "innovative" ways to enter they Chinese market and develop tech there
It was a fascinating story of strategic partnerships, US companies investing (below 50%) to Chinese startups, Executives leaving from US EDA companies and setting up startups in China, or a project leader flying his whole team and setting up shop in China
Proper Wild West situation. The whole semiconductor industry in China is so hot right now, that everyone and their mother are trying to find a way to grab a piece out of it
This is funny, as if nobody in China in all of history can ever learn to program EDA software, a code that comes from our alien lord's and masters on high as a gift to us humble humans.
Yeah if US takes out TSMC, (kinetically during reunification) China has shown it can now touch/strike US mainland high value assets as well....
The article isn't American centric. It lacks a depth but only truth beans have been spilled.
What is America centric is the IP that today's semiconductor and IT technology is built upon. A lot of the IP and its power is due to "Mass" and "Inertia" - one created through wide scale adoption and hesitancy to move away.
Let's see if China is willing to take drastic steps. It's a big test.
The article is not wrong, check out this quote:
As always, useless companies are useless. They can design a 1000 5nm chips for all I care, but if they need to have it manufactured by TSMC then it is worth nothing from a national development perspective
Overall, important for Alibaba, useless for China's national development
I do not agree completely.
What makes the IC worldwide supply chain unique is its interconnections.
Through this web, the Americans believe they can exert influence, such as a ban on chips sold to Chinese companies.
However, through this same web, the Chinese exert a lot of power too.
The most advanced chips are still sold to China. Given the astronomical R&D put into the technical know-how to produce such a chip, those monies will never be recouped if the China market is off limits. China is the biggest market for chips. Do not sell this 5nm chip to China, then the entire IC current model and supply chain will start breaking down.
The most cutting edge chips make the highest profits. Cut those sales, and the pain will reverberate through the entire industry.
This interconnected web of IC supply chains and the end product, it works both ways, and all ways.
The Americans do not view the world that way. That is why I labelled the article American centric. That is why Afghanistan collapsed in 3 weeks. The only people truly surprised where the Americans.
If the Americans start banning 5nm chips to China, a blanket ban will hurt the entire industry, including American companies. Then the Chinese could bring the rare earth card onto the table. Along with other restrictions (formal or informal) on US companies operating in China. American companies made a lot of money in China in the past. They better smarten up if they still want to do the same in the future.
Without the China market, can the most cutting edge chips be commercially viable? Probably not. No one wants to find out. Bluff city.
The Americans are not strategic geniuses. That is why Afghanistan collapsed in 3 weeks.
What chance do they really have here in IC against the Chinese in a few years? What is going to be left?
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It is not useless for national development. Chip design is also a necessary talent. China has a huge work ahead of it to dominate the whole stack. It remains to be seen if it is T-head's own core design or not though. If it is their own core design, that is a massive effort.
Plus like @horse said, each processor they make is one less processor they are buying from someone else. They are cutting out the middleman and getting a better product more well suited for their workloads. As much as we would like for China to be able to fab this chip. That isn't possible yet. But China needs to advance in all fronts to dominate the sector and achieve self-reliance.
US analysts over estimate their own capabilities I think. The fact that SMIC can produce chips at what is essentially 10nm with N+1 process similarly with what Intel can make, even if not in the same numbers because of sanctions on machine tools, is telling. The US is already shuddering at the possible expansion of YMTC now they have a competitive product out.
Plus like @horse said, each processor they make is one less processor they are buying from someone else. They are cutting out the middleman and getting a better product more well suited for their workloads. As much as we would like for China to be able to fab this chip. That isn't possible yet. But China needs to advance in all fronts to dominate the sector and achieve self-reliance.
US analysts over estimate their own capabilities I think. The fact that SMIC can produce chips at what is essentially 10nm with N+1 process similarly with what Intel can make, even if not in the same numbers because of sanctions on machine tools, is telling. The US is already shuddering at the possible expansion of YMTC now they have a competitive product out.
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