Chinese semiconductor industry

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latenlazy

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So LPP light source is more advanced than DPP ? please educate us in a simple term, thanks
LPP has an easier route to output power scaling but more complicated physics and more potential issues with light loss. DPP is trickier to scale up power output but has a less complicated mechanism for generating EUV photons, and typically generates a more coherent source of light, but may burn out more easily. Different strengths and weaknesses.
 

ansy1968

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america is gonna have to pay through the nose for those semiconductor factories...which will still be defunct come 2024 when China has its own >3nm gigafactories anyhow.
@DarkStar bro from the article, I'm no expert compare to professor Willy Shih but on this one with the bold part I may question his statement, IF TRUE (country’s skilled workforce) then how come the Americans need to persuaded (forced) TSMC who has the core competency to established a FAB in Arizona instead of Intel which has access to the world talent pool to produced the 5nm chip. And from what I read most of the critical equipment ( tools needed to make cutting-edge semiconductors.)needed to fab a 5nm came from Taiwanese semiconductor SME, they had to ship the whole thing from Taiwan to the US that escalate the cost and may delayed the scheduled opening. And one last thing most of those skilled workforces will be imported and training the locals may take years making the project a costly affair. Aside from subsidies (carrots) the reason they comply is due to threats (stick).

Harvard Business School professor Willy Shih, who studies semiconductor supply chains, calls those threats hot air. Regardless of what the US government offers the companies, manufacturers are almost certain to follow through on their plans to build factories in the US to take advantage of the country’s skilled workforce and to be close to specialized US equipment manufacturers that churn out many of the tools needed to make cutting-edge semiconductors. “But if they can get government subsidies, are they going to try to do it?” he said. “You bet.”
 

FairAndUnbiased

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@DarkStar bro from the article, I'm no expert compare to professor Willy Shih but on this one with the bold part I may question his statement, IF TRUE (country’s skilled workforce) then how come the Americans need to persuaded (forced) TSMC who has the core competency to established a FAB in Arizona instead of Intel which has access to the world talent pool to produced the 5nm chip. And from what I read most of the critical equipment ( tools needed to make cutting-edge semiconductors.)needed to fab a 5nm came from Taiwanese semiconductor SME, they had to ship the whole thing from Taiwan to the US that escalate the cost and may delayed the scheduled opening. And one last thing most of those skilled workforces will be imported and training the locals may take years making the project a costly affair. Aside from subsidies (carrots) the reason they comply is due to threats (stick).

Harvard Business School professor Willy Shih, who studies semiconductor supply chains, calls those threats hot air. Regardless of what the US government offers the companies, manufacturers are almost certain to follow through on their plans to build factories in the US to take advantage of the country’s skilled workforce and to be close to specialized US equipment manufacturers that churn out many of the tools needed to make cutting-edge semiconductors. “But if they can get government subsidies, are they going to try to do it?” he said. “You bet.”
he's a business professor, not a semiconductor engineering related professor i.e. science or engineering etc. but most of all, he is not a professor of political science, because now the sector has become politicized and is no longer a purely business decision.
 

horse

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he's a business professor, not a semiconductor engineering related professor i.e. science or engineering etc. but most of all, he is not a professor of political science, because now the sector has become politicized and is no longer a purely business decision.

That is doubtful.

The economic and commercial considerations should be the decider to the inputs and outputs of the semi-conductor industry.

If it is all about the government mandating supply and demand, then that would be communism.

The CCP would be totally against that.

:oops: :D
 

WTAN

Junior Member
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So LPP light source is more advanced than DPP ? please educate us in a simple term, thanks
The LPP Light Source produces more Power generally speaking which is desirable for mass production of ICs.
The development of DPP Iight Sources has generaly been abandoned by Western Companies as it is difficult to scale up power.
So China will basically be a pioneer if it decides to go with the DPP Light Source.
Certainly the LPP route is attractive as it is a proven and effective method which is currently used by ASML.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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That is doubtful.

The economic and commercial considerations should be the decider to the inputs and outputs of the semi-conductor industry.

If it is all about the government mandating supply and demand, then that would be communism.

The CCP would be totally against that.

:oops: :D
Biden has already ordered semiconductor companies to build fabs, make of that what you will. But order is synonymous with command, and that is an economic decision, so... command economy?
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
The LPP Light Source produces more Power generally speaking which is desirable for mass production of ICs.
The development of DPP Iight Sources has generaly been abandoned by Western Companies as it is difficult to scale up power.
So China will basically be a pioneer if it decides to go with the DPP Light Source.
Certainly the LPP route is attractive as it is a proven and effective method which is currently used by ASML.
I don't think its strictly necessary to develop 13.5 nm EUV or to use Sn exactly.
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Regardless, I am not an expert on light sources, so whatever comes out is likely the best scientific consensus.
 

NiuBiDaRen

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The schedule is for EUV to come online 2025, but Chinese engineers and scientists can always surprise the party by getting it done sooner.
May I ask, what is it about EUV that stymied the Japanese? The Japanese aren't particularly dumb people. How did they fall behind ASML?
 
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