Chinese semiconductor industry

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antiterror13

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@Annihilation98 and @ansy1968

Apart from ASML and SMEE who else produces DUV lithography? any US companies or other EU companies?

The think is, it is not about how hard to make it, but there is/was no need for others to pour huge $ and resources to build one

But now China has waken up and will do it, thanks to Trump ;)

Technically, I have no doubt that the big five plus Japan, perhaps SK can develop one, even EUV .. take time and big $ though
 
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ansy1968

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antiterror13 said:
@Annihilation98 and @ansy1968

Apart from ASML and SMEE who else produces DUV lithography? any US companies or other EU companies?

The think is, it is not about how hard to make it, but there is/was no need for others to pour huge $ and resources to build one

But now China has waken up and will do it, thanks to Trump ;)

Technically, I have no doubt that the big five plus Japan, perhaps SK can develop one, even EUV .. take time and big $ though
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@antiterror13 bro I'm waiting for a big surprise news from @WTAN @foofy @tokenanalyst and others. Like SMIC N+2 result, Huawei 14nm 3D chiplets, the 7nm domestic line and even the progress of the EUVL. SMEE 28 DUVL is so yesterday news even the 14nm domestic line, we had progress such rapid pace that getting surprises is a given. ;)
 
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Tyler

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ansy1968 said:
@Annihilation98 bro I know this is your way to stimulate a conversation and I applauded you for that, but you had been here for a year and had join with the discussion, please reread some of your post and the rebuttals, cause constant repetition , it gets tiring but for you I'll dig an article from last year for your perusal. The source is GLOBAL TIMES that is an official confirmation one can get.

Chinese firm to deliver 28nm chip manufacturing machine in 2021-2022: reports​

Source:Global Times Published: 2020/6/7 17:13:40
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629a52b3-b5be-4b80-b298-6f3101c856a1.jpeg

File photo: A visitor watches a Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (Group) Co display of how a lithography machine works on November 8, 2013.
Shanghai Micro Electronics Equipment (Group) Co (SMEE) will deliver the first domestic 28nm lithography machine between 2021 to 2022, helping narrowing the gap with the world's chip-making technology, industry websites said.

The move is a leapfrog breakthrough for China's semiconductor industry, according to domestic technology website mydrivers.com. Industry website icsmart.cn also reported it is good news for China's semiconductor industry chain.

The US crackdowns on ZTE and Huawei awakened Chinese companies to explore self-developed lithography equipment, which has underscored the urgency and significance of China to develop advanced chip making ability in a bid to avoid being squeezed by the US amid an escalating tech war.

Xiang Ligang, a veteran industry analyst, told the Global Times on Sunday that once SMEE has the ability to deliver 28nm lithography equipment, it will have the opportunity to move forward to 14nm and 7nm lithography equipment, noting that the breakthrough helps the company "accumulate experience" to manufacture high-end chip-making equipment.

The whole world could take part in the chip-making industry instead of a particular country or particular company, so progress by any single company is valuable, Xiang noted.

Founded in 2002, SMEE is one of the advanced lithography machine makers in China and accounts for about 80 percent of the domestic market share, industry websites said.

Lithography machines are one of the core pieces of equipment in chip manufacturing. Netherlands-based chip equipment maker Advanced Semiconductor Material Lithography (ASML) remained a global leader in churning out high-end lithography machines, followed by Nikon and Cano.

Liu Kun, a Beijing-based semiconductor industry analyst noted that even if the core component of the 28nm lithography equipment may not be made in China, it would be a breakthrough for the Chinese company to package such equipment.

It may take three to five years for companies like Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC) to make the 28nm equipment by itself and there is still a long way to go, but Chinese companies are ramping up efforts, according to Liu.

Global Times
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Why does SMIC need to make its own equipment, when SMEE is able to supply them?
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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Vichysoy said:
I agree with you ! Chinese bussinessman work too many sections in their bussiness , meanwhile western capitalist will changing technology for manufacturing .
But now how can chinese bussinessman change their mind ?
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Chinese businessmen are actually too honest and don't know how to make easy money by stealing and lying.

But back to semiconductors: Samsung 17 nm is an interesting, cost effective process with higher interconnect density yet maintains planar transistors for low cost. In particular they might not require multipatterning which would be a huge leap in cost effectiveness. Maybe a Chinese fab can come out with a '20 nm' or '18 nm' equivalent.
 
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MortyandRick

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ansy1968 said:
@antiterror13 bro I'm waiting for a big surprise news from @WTAN @foofy @tokenanalyst and others. Like SMIC N+2 result, Huawei 14nm 3D chiplets, the 7nm domestic line and even the progress of the EUVL. SMEE 28 DUVL is so yesterday news even the 14nm domestic line, we had progress such rapid pace that getting surprises is a given. ;)
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I hate to be the downer but ask mentioned before, those articles were it definite. I really hope their timeline is true and will be rewarded for Domestic 28nm and 14nm equipment.

I did read comments on seeking alpha that someone knew some intricacies of Ames notes their engineers are poorly paid and may leave all the time and they are more political than hype. Hope they’re are keep us in the dark for a good reason. I just don’t want get my hopes up too high

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ansy1968

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Tyler said:
Why does SMIC need to make its own equipment, when SMEE is able to supply them?
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@Tyler bro on that note, I know that the Shanghai FAB its ASML with assortment of domestic equipment, but the upcoming Beijing FAB its all domestic and here maybe the much expected SMEE 28NM DUVL will be introduced, I'm hoping that @WTAN and @foofy can shed more light on its progress.
 
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Weaasel

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FairAndUnbiased said:
If India can do it why can't Congo or any other developing country? What advantage does India have over the incumbents?
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India has a much larger population and much greater technological and industrial foundation and output than Congo does. Congo, an unfortunately with most Sub-Saharan African countries, is caught in a neopatrimonial web in which their elites are largely interested in utilizing access to state resources for self enrichment and have also made a bargain of selling mineral and other natural resources to the West to enable them to gain access to travel, services, and luxuries there. However, China has made some significant impact in changing the paradigm somewhat because it has been willing to build necessary infrastructure in significant quantities in Africa, that the more competent African governments have taken loans and quid pro quo exchanges for, such as modern roads and power stations, that they need for industrialization, which the West has refused to do.

Anyway, going back to India, for the reasons that I stated India is much more likely to succeed to Congo would in the near to medium term future.
 
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Weaasel

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Vichysoy said:
semiconductor is differrent from software industry . It's depend on the local heavy industry, the chemical industry, new materials, high level worker, machine CNC industry, vv...vv . The only thing India can do is chip design , it will take over a decade for it . Manufacturing chips not for countries that have no basically heavy industry like India or Viet Nam , even Australia can't do this .
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India does have much in terms of heavy industry in terms of inorganic and organic chemicals and metallurgical processing industries. India does produce machine tools, chemicals processing machinery, and agricultural machinery too.

Making IC chips is however in fact very different from heavy industry, because chip making is highly precise micro and even nano engineering and manufacturing, unlike most the capital and consumer products of heavy industry. The tolerance necessities are just so much higher. However, if given access to the equipment to make the chips, India would be able to make the chips within a much shorter time period than if it needs to itself produce the equipment and all chip making materials such as photoresists and various highly purified etching chemicals for example to produce nodes of <100 nm.
 
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