Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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More than 880,000 companies in China have businesses in areas of AI, robots, data processing, cloud computing, voice and image recognition and natural language processing. Size of China's AI software and application market is expected to reach $12.75 bln by 2024.

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Hi machupicu,

Size of China's AI software and application market is expected to reach $12.75 bln by 2024.

Yup, the missing piece and a critical one is Chips, but worried not I'm an optimist by that time China may have the tech for 5nm and maybe in mass production.
 

ansy1968

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Huawei may not benefit this N+1 for their smartphone, but still can benefit this for their telco equipment I believe.
Hi antonius123,

Welcome to SDF, like your post in PDF, yes HW 5G based station can benefit a lot, like the article said that SMIC 7nm N+2 can be produced using the same equipment (DUVL), my hunch mid next year we may have some positive news and here HW can used it for their high spec phone. If all prediction come true China will be 1 generation behind until late 2022 where TSMC will introduced their 2nm tech :( :( :( aaaahhh!!! then the cycle continue.....
 

mderfox

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Chip Equipment Giant ASML Says Some Sales to China Don’t Require U.S. License
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ASML CFO Roger Dassen.

ASML CFO Roger Dassen.
ASML doesn’t require a special U.S. export license to ship its less-advanced microchip-making equipment from its Dutch headquarters directly to customers in China, its CEO said, even as Washington has reportedly tried to limit the company’s sales to the Asian country.
ASML CEO Peter Wennink made his comments as his company — one of only a handful capable of making equipment to produce the world’s most advanced microchips — becomes increasingly caught up in Washington’s ongoing battle to stymie Beijing’s aspirations to build China into a world-class maker of the products that are central components to most electronic gadgets.
Washington has used its muscle to stop most U.S. suppliers from providing China the hardware, software and other services it needs to build up its chip sector. It has also used indirect pressure on non-American companies, such as working with allied governments and also by threatening to cut off such firms from their American business partners if they sell to China.

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ansy1968

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Chip Equipment Giant ASML Says Some Sales to China Don’t Require U.S. License
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ASML CFO Roger Dassen.

ASML CFO Roger Dassen.
ASML doesn’t require a special U.S. export license to ship its less-advanced microchip-making equipment from its Dutch headquarters directly to customers in China, its CEO said, even as Washington has reportedly tried to limit the company’s sales to the Asian country.
ASML CEO Peter Wennink made his comments as his company — one of only a handful capable of making equipment to produce the world’s most advanced microchips — becomes increasingly caught up in Washington’s ongoing battle to stymie Beijing’s aspirations to build China into a world-class maker of the products that are central components to most electronic gadgets.
Washington has used its muscle to stop most U.S. suppliers from providing China the hardware, software and other services it needs to build up its chip sector. It has also used indirect pressure on non-American companies, such as working with allied governments and also by threatening to cut off such firms from their American business partners if they sell to China.

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Hi mderfox,

Cause SMEE had already develop a more advance 28nm DUVL, which means their DUVL product is redundant and expensive to maintain compare to SMEE. The only chance for ASML to be relevant in China is to sell them their EUVL, they had to be quick, within a year or two even that opportunity will be lost as SMEE will launching its own EUVL.
 

mderfox

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Hi mderfox,

Cause SMEE had already develop a more advance 28nm DUVL, which means their DUVL product is redundant and expensive to maintain compare to SMEE. The only chance for ASML to be relevant in China is to sell them their EUVL, they had to be quick, within a year or two even that opportunity will be lost as SMEE will launching its own EUVL.

Yups. same tactic they do over the years.
 

ansy1968

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TO WTAN, KYli, and other experts.

Huawei's rotating chairman Eric Xu claimed that self-made chips would drive its cloud and enterprises businesses.

A newbie question, from the article stated above, what chip node size are we talking about 28nm or 22nm? For cloud computing and AI, we are talking about DRAM and NAND chips or a specialize chips? For HW focusing on cloud and AI for their future business and confidently announcing its own Chip, maybe their plan 45nm FABS is basically for that eventuality, sorry for being a nuisance again.
 

antiterror13

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Hi mderfox,

Cause SMEE had already develop a more advance 28nm DUVL, which means their DUVL product is redundant and expensive to maintain compare to SMEE. The only chance for ASML to be relevant in China is to sell them their EUVL, they had to be quick, within a year or two even that opportunity will be lost as SMEE will launching its own EUVL.

The same tactic on CNC machines in 1990s and early 2000s ..... they would withhold the sales until Chinese tech has successfully developed it .. and continue until recently
 

machupicu

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TO WTAN, KYli, and other experts.

Huawei's rotating chairman Eric Xu claimed that self-made chips would drive its cloud and enterprises businesses.

A newbie question, from the article stated above, what chip node size are we talking about 28nm or 22nm? For cloud computing and AI, we are talking about DRAM and NAND chips or a specialize chips? For HW focusing on cloud and AI for their future business and confidently announcing its own Chip, maybe their plan 45nm FABS is basically for that eventuality, sorry for being a nuisance again.
I would think for cloud: dram and nand (non-volatile), for ai: server based chips or even stand-alone system like at a hospital, 28nm or higher is fine, as they are plugged into the grid or can carry larger batteries. So yeah with 28nm Huawei can fulfill its ai and cloud..
 
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ansy1968

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I would think for cloud: dram and nand (non-volatile), for ai: server based chips or even stand-alone system like at a hospital, 28nm or higher is fine, as they are plugged into the grid or can carry larger batteries. So yeah with 28nm Huawei can fulfill its ai and cloud..
Hi machupicu,

Thanks brother, much appreciated.
 

ansy1968

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from FairAndUnbiased (pakistan defense forum) regarding recent SMIC 7nm announcement
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I don't think so. TSMC can manufacture 5nm chips at lower cost than SMIC can manufacture 8nm chips, based on sheer scale alone. In addition, SMIC is also subjected to possible US restrictions that would prevent it from actually making these chips on a mass scale.

Let's not pretend that China is currently on a competitive footing with Samsung or TSMC. This is the best we have to work with, but certainly not industry best.
Costs for sub-14 nm nodes are skyrocketing and fewer and fewer companies can even afford to design for them, never mind foundry costs. Even GloFo gave up sub-14 nm, sold its EUV machine and is focusing on growing its 14+ nm portfolio to apply mixed signal, high voltage, etc. You can have real time DSP capabilities for i.e. audio applications, even with 90 nm 32-bit microprocessors running at 600 MHz.

There's still a ton of money in 28-130 nm ICs as proven by Texas Instruments, MicroChip, etc.

8 nm is an amazing foundation and can already build essentially everything that is needed to run a modern economy.
 
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