Chinese semiconductor industry

tokenanalyst said:

I love the crap these guys write
1- 28nm is not mediocre technology, if it were so, no foundry would manufacture anything more mature than 7nm but there is and there is a large demand for this type of node. If 28nm were mediocre why the United States does not close the only pure and play foundry they have, Skywater Technologies, which is not capable of manufacturing anything newer than 65nm. Speaking of obsolescence.
2-TSMC is going to spend billions of dollars expanding its 28 nm foundry in China in order not to lose relevance, why? Mr. Culpan says 28nm is irrelevant? and more when SMIC is going to introduce its 14nm and 7nm processes.
3- These 28nm foundries could allow the Chinese to manufacture with their own equipment and materials, Naura, Amec, KingSemi, CETC, others and hopefully in the near future the immersion lithography scanners of SMEE, developing the ecosystem of suppliers within from China.
4- Those same foundries can be upgrade in the future to newer nodes like SMIC 14nm, 7nm and even 5nm in the near future, is not that they are going to only do 28nm.

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I have never read a more retarded article. Deoes that writer know that 90 % of chip demand is in >_14 nm nodes?

5nm is nice to have but China doesn't have EUV (though they are working on it) and if she can be self suffient in 14 nm and 28nm it will be a glorious day for humanity.

Such articles reinforce my belief in why the West is in terminal decline. They have this inability to reflect and see the bigger picture because their superiority complex blinds them.

Topazchen said:

I have never read a more retarded article. Deoes that writer know that 90 % of chip demand is in >_14 nm nodes?

5nm is nice to have but China doesn't have EUV (though they are working on it) and if she can be self suffient in 14 nm and 28nm it will be a glorious day for humanity.

Such articles reinforce my belief in why the West is in terminal decline. They have this inability to reflect and see the bigger picture because their superiority complex blinds them.

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I think it is even worst than that.

Let me ask you something.

Do you remember what you were doing before grade 5? What did you do before grade 5?

We were in grade 4! What did we do before grade 4? We were in grade 3! And before grade 3? We were living in a shack being home schooled.

That Bloomberg article basically advised that we do not need grade 1,2,3,4,5 etc., just graduate from Harvard already.

From what I understand, just going from 14nm to 7nm, requires a different photoresist. That is like chemical engineering, which must work with the small etchings from the electrical engineering, all must be done at once, and be cost effective.

These guys who write these articles, seems to me never worked a day in the life other than giving their opinions in newspaper columns.

I see the 10 billion factory in Shanghai as kind of a cash cow for SMIC. They know that whatever they produce, China will buy it up

Not only that but the increased number of staff and engineers will increase the overall R&D capability of the company

sndef888 said:

I see the 10 billion factory in Shanghai as kind of a cash cow for SMIC. They know that whatever they produce, China will buy it up

Not only that but the increased number of staff and engineers will increase the overall R&D capability of the company

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Yep. Have you guys seen TSMC increasing prices just because they can? Their profit margins are huge.

Yes SMIC is on an older node but that also translates to big money for it.

Stonks!

@tinrobert

Suppose we had the scenario below, would you be able to comment on how many ASML DUV machines would be required, and how many ASML currently produce every year?

AndrewS said:

I get much bigger numbers.
10 big fabs is less than 15% of Chinese demand.

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In December 2020, global monthly capacity of semiconductors was 21 million wafers per month (200mm equivalent)

So if you wanted to add an additional 50% of current global capacity inside China, you could need the following combination:

38x Huge Fabs (120,000 wafers per month @ 300mm)
AND
131x Large Fabs (80,000 wafers per month @ 200mm)

Once domestic Chinese technology is mature, China could start mass-producing semiconductor equipment.
I imagine it would be like producing dumplings / sausages.

Due to economies of scale and lower costs, theoretically Chinese semiconductors would be the LOWEST cost in the world.

And yes, a big problem would be finding customers for this capacity.
But also ramping up expertise in operating the fabs and designing chips.

But remember that memory chips are commodities and have the biggest demand. Plus they are most cost effective at older process nodes which use DUV lithography.

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Overbom said:

Yep. Have you guys seen TSMC increasing prices just because they can? Their profit margins are huge.

Yes SMIC is on an older node but that also translates to big money for it.

Stonks!

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Last time I looked, TSMC revenue is twice its total costs.

So there is a lot of scope for SMIC to undercut TSMC

China is rapidly expanding its cpu output catching up with japan. In the next few years china will be undoubtely the first chip producer in the world. Dominating this supply chain.

BYD Semiconductor takes major stake in Energen

BYD Semiconductor, a spinoff from China-based carmaker BYD, has acquired a 77.75% stake in Jinan Energen Semiconductor for CNY5 billion (US$774.8 million). Energen makes silicon (Si) and silicon carbide (SiC) power devices.

SiC power chips are increasingly adopted by Tesla for battery electric cars. Industry sources indicated that the market was speculating over the possibility of an acquisition of Energen Semi by Taiwan's EMS provider Foxconn, who invested indirectly in Energen Semi when the latter was first established in 2018 and who has been actively deploying businesses in the Si and SiC power chips fields.

As BYD acquired Energen, collaborations between Foxconn and Energen seem unlikely in the near future, although Foxconn has also been venturing into the electric vehicle (EV) sector in China, according to market observers.

Energen has invested CNY6 billion in building fabs in the first phase of its three-phase plan. The company plans to manufacture Si and third-generation semiconductor devices for data-processing, car, consumer electronics, renewable energy and telecommunication applications.

sinophilia said:

Gordon Chang's [REAL] argument is as follows: I am of mixed race descent, people used to bully me back throughout my childhood for being a half-breed. I vowed to myself that for the rest of my life I would try to assimilate into my bullies race and culture as much as I can, even if it means being a token Mongoloid they use to prove they are not racist while shitting on my phenotype's ancestry as much as is possible. I will sacrifice everything, even my dignity and my ancestors respect, if it means being able to converse with them, to marry them, to sniff their holy Whiteness.

That's all his pathetic and servile 'arguments' boil down to.

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I have a theory that Gordon Chang is actually a pro-China mole who has been acting the anti-China role for decades in order to keep real anti-China forces complacent in the belief of their superiority. He never forgave all those racist bullies who picked on him as a half breed mongoloid child. Now, he gets his revenge while being showered with accolades from those same racists he secretly hates. Revenge is a dish best served cold! Well done Gordon, well done!

krautmeister said:

I have a theory that Gordon Chang is actually a pro-China mole who has been acting the anti-China role for decades in order to keep real anti-China forces complacent in the belief of their superiority. He never forgave all those racist bullies who picked on him as a half breed mongoloid child. Now, he gets his revenge while being showered with accolades from those same racists he secretly hates. Revenge is a dish best served cold! Well done Gordon, well done!

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They served in silence.

That aside do we know the current status of Chinese FPGA?