Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Exactly, all globohomo can do at this point is projection.
I think you responded to the wrong post. I couldn't care less about Anglo cope to China's semiconductor independence drive, I care about the drive itself.

But on the mention of the term, I must say that feel some pity for the LGBT. Their justified struggle has been coopted into the liberal internationalist project and they've made themselves witting or unwitting pawns of that project. So the scorn that's now heaped on them, they've brought on themselves.

As such, I propose a different, more accurate term than "globohomo" for the liberal project: the "Homosexual International" or "Homintern."
 

dfrtyhgj

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think you responded to the wrong post. I couldn't care less about Anglo cope to China's semiconductor independence drive, I care about the drive itself.

But on the mention of the term, I must say that feel some pity for the LGBT. Their justified struggle has been coopted into the liberal internationalist project and they've made themselves witting or unwitting pawns of that project. So the scorn that's now heaped on them, they've brought on themselves.

As such, I propose a different, more accurate term than "globohomo" for the liberal project: the "Homosexual International" or "Homintern."
I mean, all their attacks on China is just projecting their own issues either consciously or unconsciously. So you are right it's a detraction for us, and they projected it onto China and wrote an article on it being an distraction for China. If you pay attention the vast majority of hit pieces on China are just Western projections. It's kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
 

sinophilia

Junior Member
Registered Member
What was Gordon Chang's central argument again since that China was a non liberal democracy and it has a centralized system with a technocratic bureaucracy which inherently somehow festered up corruption. Eventually, the system would fall on itself because of the corruption that would be build up. There would be so much corruption that all of the stats that the government say would be fake. If the government stats were that would mean the Chinese economy was a hollow one.

Gordon Chang's [REAL] argument is as follows: I am of mixed race descent, people used to bully me back throughout my childhood for being a half-breed. I vowed to myself that for the rest of my life I would try to assimilate into my bullies race and culture as much as I can, even if it means being a token Mongoloid they use to prove they are not racist while shitting on my phenotype's ancestry as much as is possible. I will sacrifice everything, even my dignity and my ancestors respect, if it means being able to converse with them, to marry them, to sniff their holy Whiteness.

That's all his pathetic and servile 'arguments' boil down to.
 

GodRektsNoobs

Junior Member
Registered Member
The future for Europe is tourism. They better start preparing by toning down their racism.
"Toning down their racism?" I'm sorry, but I find this comment ironic. European technology has survived rise of US, USSR, and Japan. How is rise of China going to any different?
 

GodRektsNoobs

Junior Member
Registered Member
In a sense, the new SMIC fab is a distraction for us. We're not focusing on what we should be focused on: China's EUV. The Harbin Institute supposedly has a 150W DPP light source, what's going on with that? What about the LPP efforts? The optics? It would be worthwhile to at least summarize what's known so far about this. 28/14nm is done and dusted, let's stop wasting digital ink on it.
Honestly, we just don't have much information coming out regarding Chinese EUV. There is a reason for that. Remember last time HIT published their progress, and ended up getting sanctions by the US?
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
An $11 Billion Distraction for China's Chip Ambitions

Beijing wants to boost its semiconductor prowess, but instead the nation’s leading company is doubling down on mediocre technology.

By Tim Culpan
September 6, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC


Year after year, we hear about China’s ambitions to become a leading contender in the global chip race. Yet time and again its companies and government make decisions that seem destined to ensure the nation remains an also-ran.

Latest among the befuddling choices is the Shanghai government signing on to own up to 25% of a massive new factory that Semiconductor Manufacturing International Co. intends to build. The $8.9 billion budget for this facility adds to a $2.35 billion plant that SMIC is already planning 800 miles south in Shenzhen. That earlier project will also be minority held and funded by the local government.

What’s astounding about these plans is that they’ll create a huge amount of manufacturing capacity for technologies that are more than a decade old. Both the Shanghai and Shenzhen fabs will be dedicated to 28-nanometer nodes and above, the kind used for less energy- and resource-sensitive applications such as controlling electric windows or running windshield wipers. By comparison, world leader Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. is making chips for Apple Inc. and Intel Corp. at 5 nanometer, and will introduce the even more advanced 3nm next year.

If SMIC could press the start button on these two new factories today, the total capacity of 140,000 wafers per month would go a long way toward solving the current chip shortage. Auto manufacturers are particularly hard hit because poor planning during the early days of the pandemic last year means they’re now unable to install the sensors, screens and electronics required to build a modern car. Most of those chips are made at the 28-nanometer node.

But two problems come to mind when looking at this large capital allocation. First, it’ll take two to three years for those factories to come on stream, by which time the current shortage will be ameliorated, with a drop in prices a likely result. China’s lack of self-sufficiency in the equipment, materials and software required to build chips will further complicate capacity expansion.

Second, China’s dream isn’t to be a global powerhouse in components that brush water off your car. It wants to design and make the chips that drive a vehicle autonomously. In June, Beijing anointed Vice Premier Liu He to be its new chip czar, in a move that highlights just how seriously President Xi Jinping takes the task of creating a leading semiconductor sector at home. Despite pumping at least $51 billion into two separate funds since 2014 to help domestic players catch up with overseas rivals, there’s been little progress in closing the gap.

For that you need engineers to be focused on leading-edge and niche products that sell for hundreds of dollars, not mass-market components that go for pennies. Chinese EV player Xpeng Inc., for example, uses artificial intelligence chips from U.S. designer Nvidia Corp. that sell for up to $999 apiece, while parts that control a car’s display cost $1. TSMC makes Nvidia’s best semiconductors; SMIC produces items like screen controllers, among other less-advanced products.

Thus, spending $11 billion on huge factories to churn out generic parts won’t bridge the gap between SMIC and TSMC.

And it’s not just money that’s going to waste. Engineering talent is also in short supply. Turnover at Chinese chip manufacturers is among the highest in the industry, while SMIC pays its staff well below the levels offered at TSMC and nearest rival United Microelectronics Corp., Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Charles Shum wrote. Having your workforce focused on squeezing out efficiency gains will most assuredly boost margins and raise profits, but that also means talent isn’t put toward solving leading-edge challenges in semiconductor manufacturing.

SMIC and its peers, like Hua Hong Semiconductor Ltd. will probably be okay. An increasingly connected world and growing Chinese consumer base means that there’ll always be demand for the low-end products they’ve decided they want to dominate. They’ll face stiff competition from GlobalFoundries Inc., a U.S. rival that earlier this year announced a $4 billion Singapore expansion aimed at the same broad category of products SMIC is chasing.

But at least it won’t be tackling TSMC head on, nor the other industry leaders, Samsung Electronics Co. and Intel. That’s a safe move. The Chinese leader never has to worry about losing the global chip battle if it doesn’t enter the race. It will have no problem comfortably maintaining its domestic dominance while garnering subsidies and investments from local governments eager to burnish their tech credentials.

Unfortunately for China, writing big checks to fund timid moves will neither make the nation a global semiconductor powerhouse nor further its goals of technology independence. For Beijing to make that happen, it’ll need to find a new national hero.
I love the crap these guys write
1- 28nm is not mediocre technology, if it were so, no foundry would manufacture anything more mature than 7nm but there is and there is a large demand for this type of node. If 28nm were mediocre why the United States does not close the only pure and play foundry they have, Skywater Technologies, which is not capable of manufacturing anything newer than 65nm. Speaking of obsolescence.
2-TSMC is going to spend billions of dollars expanding its 28 nm foundry in China in order not to lose relevance, why? Mr. Culpan says 28nm is irrelevant? and more when SMIC is going to introduce its 14nm and 7nm processes.
3- These 28nm foundries could allow the Chinese to manufacture with their own equipment and materials, Naura, Amec, KingSemi, CETC, others and hopefully in the near future the immersion lithography scanners of SMEE, developing the ecosystem of suppliers within from China.
4- Those same foundries can be upgrade in the future to newer nodes like SMIC 14nm, 7nm and even 5nm in the near future, is not that they are going to only do 28nm.
 

tinrobert

Junior Member
Registered Member
Honestly, we just don't have much information coming out regarding Chinese EUV. There is a reason for that. Remember last time HIT published their progress, and ended up getting sanctions by the US?
Absolutely right. Back on July 17, 2020 I wrote an article analyzing SMIC entitled "China: Who Needs TSMC When They Have SMIC?" Six weeks later on September 4, 2020, Reuters reported the Trump administration was considering whether to add SMIC to a trade blacklist. Three weeks later they did. You can read my article here and let me know what you think:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


That's why in my August 11, 2020 article entitled "SMIC Is Closing The Gap With Industry Leaders Despite U.S. Sanctions,"
I wrote as a reply to one of my reader's comments "It is my understanding from speaking with colleagues that SMEE will be introducing its DUV system either in 2H2021 or 1H2022. With multiple processing users should get down to 14nm. Remember, SMIC has many ASML DUV systems they have been working with, so the transition should not be a problem. I think SMIC and SMEE are keeping quiet on this for fear of more sanctions." You can read this article as well here and let me know what you think:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
So the solution (Moore's Law )is now focus on advance packaging and 3D stacking chiplet? @krautmeister @FairAndUnbiased bro on your previous post China is known to be good at packaging especially with the newly recruited JIANG SHANGYI of SMIC, So they have a chance to at least stay within a generation behind as TSMC and Samsung hit those technical barriers? And also the video talks about TSMC investment in Photonics chip, is this the same as the Huawei FAB in Wuhan? If it does this mean that Huawei had strategically invested in this new technology as they try to overcome the restriction and had found a solution? Sorry for being a nuisance but I really like to hear your opinion.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

309 views23 minutes ago

CC
 

dfrtyhgj

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Toning down their racism?" I'm sorry, but I find this comment ironic. European technology has survived rise of US, USSR, and Japan. How is rise of China going to any different?
This is getting off topic, but you haven't been paying attention to European attacks on China lately, it's all rooted based on racism against the Chinese people. Go read Global Times.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top