Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just as expected TSMC is now in deep trouble.
INTEL is now going in a big way in the foundry business and will compete directly with TSMC.
Looks like Qualcomm will now stop dealing with TSMC and use the services of INTEL.
I am certain that the US GOVT will push many other American Companies to procure Chips from the INTEL FAB.
Looks like TSMC was shafted and will suffer great losses in the coming years.
TSMC is restricted from doing business with many Chinese clients who were unilaterally sanctioned.
TSMC is also restricted from setting up 28mm FABS in China.
Worse of all China is now setting up its own FABS and also working on EUV Lithographs.
I fully expect the FAB Business will shrink in both Taiwan and SKorea in the next few years.
Little wonder that the TSMC Head is now calling for Free Trade in Semiconductors.
But unfortunately it is all too late.
@WTAN Sir what are its option then? A break up or set up a different corporate entity in the Mainland?
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
@WTAN Sir what are its option then? A break up or set up a different corporate entity in the Mainland?
TSMC may have no choice but to do more Business in China.
China is still the largest single market for ICs in the World.
It will be losing more American and EU clients as both US and EU want to FAB their own ICs for National Security reasons.
Yes......probably set up a separate Entity to operate in China which uses Chinese made Semiconductor Equipment.
TSMC already owns a part of SMIC so it could set up another entity like SMIC.
It will however be subject to Chinese National Security checks and Entity List Laws etc.
For Eg. If it refuses to supply Huawei it could be shut down.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
Mostly agree.

In terms of global semiconductor consumption, the last figures I've seen are:

Chinese domestic demand: 20-25% of all semiconductors
Exported from Chinese factories: 35%-40% of all semiconductors

If the US did ban semiconductors exports to China, we'd see a rapid ramp up of 28nm/14nm fabs in the next 2 years, given that domestic Chinese technology is available today for these nodes.

Given that 80% of semiconductor sales can be covered by these nodes, my guess is that China would still retain at least 40% of the global semiconductor flow.

But that figure will grow higher as EUV and other semiconductor technology matures inside China.

Well, according to your figures, China buys 55% to 65% of all the chips made worldwide. If the US banned semiconductor sales to China -- and somehow managed to enforce the ban globally -- then US chipmakers would take a heavy hit, as 55% to 65% of their market would be gone.

Of course, the US could attempt to keep its chipmakers from dying by giving them subsidies; an entire US industry would go on welfare, basically. The heavy subsidies would have to last until America's semiconductor market was revived by the recovery of the country's own consumer manufacturing, and that could take decades. By that time, China's local market for chips would be completely, permanently lost to the US chipmakers, as the ban would have forced China to create a comprehensive semiconductor industry on the mainland. China's chip consumption (i.e. not for export) is at least 20% of the global market even now, according to your figures, and decades from now will likely be an even greater fraction. So the US chipmakers would either be subsidized forever, or they would be forced to shrink by 20% (and likely by far more).

So regardless of what the US does, and even in the optimistic scenario of the reshoring of its manufacturing base, its semiconductor companies do not have a bright future. That is entirely due to the US's lashing out at China, utterly disregarding the longer term consequences. The Americans' triumphant talk is muting, as they slowly realize what the consequences will be. They will deserve them.
 
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horse

Colonel
Registered Member
@WTAN Sir what are its option then? A break up or set up a different corporate entity in the Mainland?

There is only one thing that TSMC can do and they will do it!

Once President Trump started the war on Huawei, he was going all the way. Since banning Huawei did not work, then they banned all American IP from Huawei, and since that did not work, they had to ban all semiconductors from Huawei, especially the ones from TSMC.

Everyone knows, that at that stage in the game, China will try to catch up, and the window to do IC business in China regardless of US sanctions will be open. Once China catches up to the cutting edge in IC, then that window shuts. Perhaps permanently if a foreign company does not survive.

TSMC realizes now that window is shutting far earlier than they imagined. If they were ignorant of China's IC abilities, then they were ignorant.

This is what TSMC has to do to save themselves.

TSMC has to request a meeting with the emperor, who holds court at dawn. TSMC has to get on it knees and beg the emperor that the Americans made them do it, because they threatened their family's livelihood. TSMC must beg the emperor for some business to stay viable and survive. Their ignorance of China has turned into a corporate life or death situation.

The emperor probably will order some small business will be directed TSMC way. They did help Huawei stockpile chips, and left the US automakers with none.

TSMC already pleading with the world for free trade! They saw the future, and they were startled. They do not want to be collateral damage in the US-China tech war. TSMC actually asks the world to do free trade.

Wonder what kind of laugh we can hear from Huawei headquarters?

:p:oops:
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
There is only one thing that TSMC can do and they will do it!

Once President Trump started the war on Huawei, he was going all the way. Since banning Huawei did not work, then they banned all American IP from Huawei, and since that did not work, they had to ban all semiconductors from Huawei, especially the ones from TSMC.

Everyone knows, that at that stage in the game, China will try to catch up, and the window to do IC business in China regardless of US sanctions will be open. Once China catches up to the cutting edge in IC, then that window shuts. Perhaps permanently if a foreign company does not survive.

TSMC realizes now that window is shutting far earlier than they imagined. If they were ignorant of China's IC abilities, then they were ignorant.

This is what TSMC has to do to save themselves.

TSMC has to request a meeting with the emperor, who holds court at dawn. TSMC has to get on it knees and beg the emperor that the Americans made them do it, because they threatened their family's livelihood. TSMC must beg the emperor for some business to stay viable and survive. Their ignorance of China has turned into a corporate life or death situation.

The emperor probably will order some small business will be directed TSMC way. They did help Huawei stockpile chips, and left the US automakers with none.

TSMC already pleading with the world for free trade! They saw the future, and they were startled. They do not want to be collateral damage in the US-China tech war. TSMC actually asks the world to do free trade.

Wonder what kind of laugh we can hear from Huawei headquarters?

:p:oops:
@horse brother that op-ed came from Global Times and I think your right it's a pleading to Emperor Xi itself. Brother as @Skywatcher had said TSMC maybe affected but it will survive what comes next interest me. Maybe it may force TSMC to become a mainland corporate entity therefore increasing China IC more than ever. And a side effect of that is the peaceful reunification accelerating with the hollowing out of TW semiconductor base, Interesting times ahead indeed.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Everything was going fine, until the Stable Genius decided to declare war on China attacking Huawei and ZTE.

Til then, no company needed to place panic orders for two or three years, the semiconductor market was stable, the manufacturers of semiconductor manufacturing equipment were making their money. TSMC was making money. Everything went smoothly and everybody was happy.

After he declared war on China, he suddently realized that Taiwan was much closer to China than to the US. It also suddently dawned on him that both Taiwan and China spoke the same language, they had the same cultural roots and essentially they were the same people.

That realization scared the American shitless, because, who knows, if somehow Taiwan became suddely wise, they could end up being under the control of mainland China, to whom they had just then declared war.

Now it is each one for himself, no matter who gets screwed.

At the end of the day, Taiwan and TSMC will be the greates losers. The US, however, is going to take a blow like they have never gotten in their entire history.

It will be nice to see it!

Very true and Biden administration know it ... just how to undo Trump's policies is very tricky business
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
There is only one thing that TSMC can do and they will do it!

Once President Trump started the war on Huawei, he was going all the way. Since banning Huawei did not work, then they banned all American IP from Huawei, and since that did not work, they had to ban all semiconductors from Huawei, especially the ones from TSMC.

Everyone knows, that at that stage in the game, China will try to catch up, and the window to do IC business in China regardless of US sanctions will be open. Once China catches up to the cutting edge in IC, then that window shuts. Perhaps permanently if a foreign company does not survive.

TSMC realizes now that window is shutting far earlier than they imagined. If they were ignorant of China's IC abilities, then they were ignorant.

This is what TSMC has to do to save themselves.

TSMC has to request a meeting with the emperor, who holds court at dawn. TSMC has to get on it knees and beg the emperor that the Americans made them do it, because they threatened their family's livelihood. TSMC must beg the emperor for some business to stay viable and survive. Their ignorance of China has turned into a corporate life or death situation.

The emperor probably will order some small business will be directed TSMC way. They did help Huawei stockpile chips, and left the US automakers with none.

TSMC already pleading with the world for free trade! They saw the future, and they were startled. They do not want to be collateral damage in the US-China tech war. TSMC actually asks the world to do free trade.

Wonder what kind of laugh we can hear from Huawei headquarters?

:p:oops:

I don't see TSMC's plan to build 5nm fab in the US Arizona will go ahead .. no way, it is over $12B investment!
 
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