Chinese semiconductor industry

bettydice said:

I don't get your (and others) unilateral sympathy for Korea. The sure thing is Koreans are full of hatred of China (and other Asians to a lesser degree).

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bettydice said:

They also have display, smartphones, cars, TVs etc. Korean display can be replaced by BOE and Visionox. Reportedly Huawei has been increasingly using BOE panels instead of Samsung and LG panels since the sanction.

Chinese smartphones will never be accepted by Koreans, but globally Samsung is gradually losing share and even in Korea Apple is gaining.

For cars, I read that Korean car sales are falling in Chinese market and been low in other Asian markets in contrast to Japanese cars.

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Korea is a very insular society they buy their own stuff from rice cookers to fridges to cars to phones, doesn't mean they hate anybody.

The same talking heads that preach the Chinese should buy Chinese made products are the same ones that scream loudest when other countries chose to purchase their domestic products!

Cognitive dissonance, much?

krautmeister said:

It's mostly incremental improvements nowadays with ArFi DUV, but it will still be a long road. Those incremental improvements are largely trial and error process improvements that are ironed out with the fabs. ASML has been working with the largest fabs for many years and they still can't get commercially viable 7nm DUV designs relative to 7nm EUV. The recent news related to stacked layering of chiplet designs would probably never be commercially viable outside China. It's only China's unbeatable supply chains that might make it viable because its combined cost efficiencies everywhere else might make up for this.

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@krautmeister so bro SMIC had a role to play maybe even ICRD in improving SMEE DUVL performance, My wish is that TSMC and Samsung comes around and buy SMEE DUVL with four of them their accumulated experience will surely boost the machine performance level immediately.

hkbc said:

Korea is a very insular society they buy their own stuff from rice cookers to fridges to cars to phones, doesn't mean they hate anybody.

The same talking heads that preach the Chinese should buy Chinese made products are the same ones that scream loudest when other countries chose to purchase their domestic products!

Cognitive dissonance, much?

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Some of the crazier ones are blaming Chyna for their air pollution and propping up north korea

krautmeister said:

I greatly admire how well the China government has planned and governed overall. They didn't neglect foundational technologies 20 years ago as @Nutrient pointed out. It's what they didn't do in the last 10 years after the Pivot to Asia. Like where TSMC is allowed to have their 28nm expansion plan subsidized by local governments or where local semiconductor design firms are incentivized to outsource their designs to foreign fabs at the expense of domestic fabs. Stuff like this is clearly harmful to China but those local government officials are rewarded for it because the incentive structure and FDI rules lack enough detail and expert guidance.

I totally agree with your Trump/Pompeo stance. China is not perfect, so it needs things to make up for its imperfections. Trump, Pompeo, Ron Vara and the rest, were the perfect rallying cry for American worshippers to be bluntly shown some American hospitality. A steady stream of anti-China propaganda, Asian hate crimes and targeted anti-Chinese racism is what the doctor ordered to this.

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Hindsight is 20:20, armchair quarter backing, back seat driving, after the fact, is easier than doing the real thing in real time. In any structure there are rules, goals and targets, changing those mid-course because of external drivers simply means you are dancing to some one else's tune rather than executing your plan.

Telling people to go in one direction one year and a totally different one the next is what makes Western liberal democracies stagnate and not get anything done!

Throwing middle management under the bus when the CEO's plans don't work out is a hallmark of Anglo Saxon capitalism, when you tell the troops take that hill, bonuses all round and then its the wrong hill let's beat up on the troops and withhold the bonus! See how many charge up the next hill! No you go back and do better next time.

Griping about how things should have been is human nature, but its just hot air at the end of the day, unless you have a time machine!

hkbc said:

Hindsight is 20:20, armchair quarter backing, back seat driving, after the fact, is easier than doing the real thing in real time. In any structure there are rules, goals and targets, changing those mid-course because of external drivers simply means you are dancing to some one else's tune rather than executing your plan.

Telling people to go in one direction one year and a totally different one the next is what makes Western liberal democracies stagnate and not get anything done!

Throwing middle management under the bus when the CEO's plans don't work out is a hallmark of Anglo Saxon capitalism, when you tell the troops take that hill, bonuses all round and then its the wrong hill let's beat up on the troops and withhold the bonus! See how many charge up the next hill! No you go back and do better next time.

Griping about how things should have been is human nature, but its just hot air at the end of the day, unless you have a time machine!

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It's not griping. China had no choice because they were being targeted, unlike countries like India and Japan, who play by the rules set by the master. So, for China to sit by waiting for inevitable sanctions was negligent. It was very predictable what would happen, and it's very predictable now what will happen in the next few years. I'll state that I did believe China was in a very tough situation 3 years ago and I never expected them to advance the comprehensive way they did. Still, despite what I believe back then, I would still say they had to invest more energy years ago in semiconductor equipment and materials, and engines, and this and that, etc. because they simply have no choice.

ansy1968 said:

@krautmeister so bro SMIC had a role to play maybe even ICRD in improving SMEE DUVL performance, My wish is that TSMC and Samsung comes around and buy SMEE DUVL with four of them their accumulated experience will surely boost the machine performance level immediately.

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I wouldn't hold my breath. Keep in mind that TSMC and Samsung are part of the .

krautmeister said:

It's not griping. China had no choice because they were being targeted, unlike countries like India and Japan, who play by the rules set by the master. So, for China to sit by waiting for inevitable sanctions was negligent. It was very predictable what would happen, and it's very predictable now what will happen in the next few years. I'll state that I did believe China was in a very tough situation 3 years ago and I never expected them to advance the comprehensive way they did. Still, despite what I believe back then, I would still say they had to invest more energy years ago in semiconductor equipment and materials, and engines, and this and that, etc. because they simply have no choice.

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I think Chinese leadership had hoped that the Industrial class in the US would slow down the implementation of lawfare capabilities of the US financial system by bribing them with business opportunities.

That was their mistake when it comes to empire the US is really fast implementing tools to combat dissident countries.
I'm really surprised how far the long arm of the US really stretches, to the point they can influence Chinese national champions.

krautmeister said:

I wouldn't hold my breath. Keep in mind that TSMC and Samsung are part of the

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.

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TSMC and Samsung while they aren't US companies the board members and majority shareholders are probably all US financial institutions. So if the US says jump they will ask how high? That is why you see Samsung collab with google in the wearable software space and collab with AMD in the high end Semi conductor space all to counter act Huawei in Asia.

hkbc said:

Korea is a very insular society they buy their own stuff from rice cookers to fridges to cars to phones, doesn't mean they hate anybody.

The same talking heads that preach the Chinese should buy Chinese made products are the same ones that scream loudest when other countries chose to purchase their domestic products!

Cognitive dissonance, much?

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Korea is a friendly country that likes all kinds of Chinese products.

@krautmeister bro question are they using Intel chips, if yes then it doesn't matter cause a replacement is just around the corner with a localized 14nm chips next year or maybe under the table supply from SMIC .

from CnTechPost

Huawei enters top five in global public cloud market for first time, report shows​

June 30, 2021
Huawei has achieved more than 200 percent growth in the infrastructure-as-a-service (IaaS) public cloud market for the second consecutive year and entered the top five for the first time in 2020 with $2.7 billion in revenue, according to research firm Gartner.
The results show that more than 90 percent of Huawei's revenue from this business comes from Greater China, where the cloud market continues to grow rapidly.
Huawei began shifting from selling equipment to investing heavily in its cloud services business after 2019, and that difficult transition is already bearing fruit, said Sid Nag, research vice president at Gartner.
The global IaaS market reaches $64.3 billion in 2020, up 40.7 percent from $45.7 billion in 2019, according to Gartner.
The top five IaaS providers account for 80 percent of the market share in 2020, with nearly 90 percent of IaaS providers experiencing growth.

Amazon remains number one in the IaaS market in 2020, followed by Microsoft, Alibaba, Google and Huawei, respectively.
Amazon continues to lead the global IaaS market with revenues of $26.2 billion in 2020 and a 41 percent market share. Amazon's growth rate of 28.7 percent is slightly below the market average, with its sales growth primarily coming from increased customer usage.


Microsoft continues to rank second in Gartner's IaaS market share with nearly 60 percent growth and $12.7 billion in revenue in 2020.
Alibaba, the dominant IaaS provider in China, has revenues of more than $6 billion in 2020, up 52.8 percent from $4 billion in 2019. Alibaba has the highest growth rate in the education vertical at 105 percent in 2020.
Google's IaaS revenue grows 66 percent to nearly $4 billion in 2020.

ansy1968 said:

@krautmeister bro question are they using Intel chips, if yes then it doesn't matter cause a replacement is just around the corner with a localized 14nm chips next year or maybe under the table supply from SMIC .

from CnTechPost

Huawei enters top five in global public cloud market for first time, report shows​

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

June 30, 2021
Huawei has achieved more than 200 percent growth in the infrastructure-as-a-service (IaaS) public cloud market for the second consecutive year and entered the top five for the first time in 2020 with $2.7 billion in revenue, according to research firm Gartner.
The results show that more than 90 percent of Huawei's revenue from this business comes from Greater China, where the cloud market continues to grow rapidly.
Huawei began shifting from selling equipment to investing heavily in its cloud services business after 2019, and that difficult transition is already bearing fruit, said Sid Nag, research vice president at Gartner.
The global IaaS market reaches $64.3 billion in 2020, up 40.7 percent from $45.7 billion in 2019, according to Gartner.
The top five IaaS providers account for 80 percent of the market share in 2020, with nearly 90 percent of IaaS providers experiencing growth.

Amazon remains number one in the IaaS market in 2020, followed by Microsoft, Alibaba, Google and Huawei, respectively.
Amazon continues to lead the global IaaS market with revenues of $26.2 billion in 2020 and a 41 percent market share. Amazon's growth rate of 28.7 percent is slightly below the market average, with its sales growth primarily coming from increased customer usage.

Microsoft continues to rank second in Gartner's IaaS market share with nearly 60 percent growth and $12.7 billion in revenue in 2020.
Alibaba, the dominant IaaS provider in China, has revenues of more than $6 billion in 2020, up 52.8 percent from $4 billion in 2019. Alibaba has the highest growth rate in the education vertical at 105 percent in 2020.
Google's IaaS revenue grows 66 percent to nearly $4 billion in 2020.

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I think Huawei Cloud uses their Kunpeng 920 server processor, along with an assortment of application specific processors.