Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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WTAN said:
The Semiconductor Industry in China has changed alot in the last few years. There are now alot of Start Ups setting up Designing Chips and EDA etc.
The Chinese Govt realises that it has to take advantage of the innovation the Private Sector will bring.
Govt has promised to support the Startups with funding from the Big Fund and also give preference for Stock Market listing on the Tech Stock Exchange in Shanghai.
There is a Boom in the IC Industry in China now, so any Foreign Companies shutting themselves out of the China Market on the orders of the US are fools.
Now is the time to go to China to set up a Tech Business.
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@WTAN I think that's what Mr Morris Chang is referring to, China is the driving force behind the market and therefore the innovation. If you impede it you will be left behind cause they will find an alternative and become innovative, also the Chinese had a long memory. Its a dilemma for TSMC, SMIC will become a great competitor from nothing a few years ago, a MEA CULPA moment? As the Chinese strive to master the tech you're correct, its better to be a part of it rather than an outsider looking in.
 
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Kazuo Ken

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4Runner said:
This movie has been played over and over in slightly different cuts or post production. But the west in general and the US in particular just refuse to come to the natural conclusion. Instead, they just repeat the same craps like the "Coming collapse of China" story. The end of this semi-war could very well end up in a similar scenario you described above. The tragedy for the west is that, when that happens, there would absolutely be no insurmountable obstacles for China to dominate the entire high end manufacturing segments. Chinese are great at hardware production and system integration and embedded software applications. When China corners the semiconductor sector, all bets are off.
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But China still imported more than half mid to high end machine tools from Germany(west) and Japan. And that happened after that decade long machine tool ban from west. And that happened after China finally able to produce mid to high end 5 axis machine tool themselves.

Read this. This will give you idea how China works after they have mastered a technology.


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"As the world’s largest machine tool market, the main business revenue of machine tools reached about $106 billion in 2018, with a year-on-year growth of 8.3% from the previous year. According to data from China Customs, imports valued $16.5 billion, up 8.5%, and exports valued $13.6 billion, up 16.8% from 2017. More than half of all high-end CNC machine tools and accessories were imported from Japan and Germany; fewer than 20 Chinese companies can provide medium and high-end CNC machine tools. Local industry experts expect that the demand for metal cutting, forming machine tools, and accessories will face challenges of continued growth in 2019."

Point to take note,
  • More than half of all high-end CNC machine tools and accessories were imported from Japan and Germany.
  • Fewer than 20 Chinese companies can provide medium and high-end CNC machine tools.
Point 1, from all the high end machine tools being used in China in 2018 more than half of the machines were imported. I guess 60% import 40% domestic.

Point 2, Fewer than 20 Chinese companies can provide mid to high-end machine. I guess the number could be in the range of 15 to 16 companies. These are China top machine tools makers,

In China, main CNC machine tool players include Shenyang Machine Tool, Haitian Precision Machinery, Guosheng Intelligence Technology and RIFA Precision Machinery.

Also this,

With the continuous deepening of the structural adjustment of China's machine tool industry, the CNC level of machine tools has jumped significantly, but still heavily lagging behind developed industrialized countries; especially, China only sees 6% in the localization rate of high-end CNC machine tools which are mainly imported. This means a huge opportunity for domestic substitution in the future.
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And you said this

"The tragedy for the west is that, when that happens, there would absolutely be no insurmountable obstacles for China to dominate the entire high end manufacturing segments. Chinese are great at hardware production and system integration and embedded software applications. When China corners the semiconductor sector, all bets are off"

Ok like you said there would absolutely no insurmountable obstacles for China to dominate the entire high-end manufacturing segments then why Chinese machine tools makers still not dominating Chinese market in high end machine segment? The ban happened long time ago and today Chinese manufacturers can produce high end machine tools themselves. I think producing high end machine tool is easier than producing EUV machine.

How can you speak with confidence that when china corners the semiconductor sector, all bets are off when they still unable to completely cornered the high-end machine tools market with companies that they currently have???

Which one should I believe here?You or the reality??
 
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voyager1

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Get ready, its coming...
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  • A new congressional report recommends that the Biden administration put additional controls on US chip equipment exports
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calls on lawmakers to push the administration of President Joe Biden to join forces with Japan and the EU to counter Chinese measures.
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The report also recommended lawmakers tighten more controls on the export of US chip equipment, tools and software
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Kazuo Ken

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I think this is going to be the biggest ban or sanction attack China experienced in its history. But I think the sanction is too late to be effective. Stupid moves.
 
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ansy1968

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Kazuo Ken said:
Bring it on
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@Kazuo Ken bro that's my line I had it TM....LOL. Yup and let see who survive the EU or Japan....hehehe the American are smart, if both of them go down the US will pick up the pieces for a song....LOL that is what I call a plan....heheheehe and let see which company will be affected.

1) ASML
2) gigaphoton
3) Nikon
4) Canon
5) Japanese chemical suppliers
6) Japanese material suppliers

so 5 out of six are Japanese , way to go NIHON BANZAI!!!!!!
 
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