Chinese semiconductor industry

ILikeChina said:

The purchases at ASML continue.

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@ILikeChina so no DUVL only wafer equipment.

SMIC signed an order with ASML Holding N.V. for the purchase of its products used in the production of wafers for a total amount of $1.2 billion, the company said in an announcement today.

@Oldschool @WTAN @foofy

SMIC has a 300mm wafer fab in Shanghai, a 200mm foundry and a 300mm advanced equipment process foundry joint venture that it actually owns. This must be the new SN1 12inch wafer plant in Shanghai?

It has a 300mm wafer fab and a 300mm wafer fab holding in Beijing; a 200mm fab in Tianjin and a 200mm fab in Shenzhen; and a 300mm joint venture holding in Jiangyin. And this one in Beijing or it is still under construction? What I know the plan SMIC 12 inch Beijing wafer plant use domestic equipment?

Oldschool said:

That is extremely unlikely, Xi determines to solve this taiwan situation during his term.

1)Xi wants to be remembered as great as Mao. To be considered that, taiwan unification under him must be accomplished
2)CPC allows Xi to have unlimited term all because of the acknowledgement he will be the one finish this task
3)Taiwan Unification is very hard. If cannot accomplished under Xi, the one who born in China tough time and endured all the hardship and that task slide down to next generation who has much easier time growing up? The new generation won't have the mental fortitude. The current leadership in CPC doesn't think the newer generation have enough mental toughness and boldness to undertake the taiwan unification task and thats why most expected Xi to finish this task. Xi expects himself also.

CHinese media talk about the unification within 2 years. Some projected 5 years or 10 years. That's furtherest i have heard is 10 years.
2050, I have not heard a single person talk about stretching out that far.
Korean war, PLA barely had anything under mao yet willing to take on the mighty US and UN allies. Right now, CPC think they have enough. mental toughness is mostly needed.

If it failed, Xi willing to accept that responsibility and he step down. US currently think Xi is the main problem right and China knows that. THe grand finale would be Xi undertake the task. Once the task accomplished, Xi would step down.
Either way, success or failure., Xi would step down. A new page in history book.

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On the other hand, suppose Xi tries to take Taiwan and FAILS.

He won't be remembered as being as great as Mao. History will judge him a failure.

That is why I think it can wait.

As the decades go on, China's power will continue to grow.
It should be relatively easy to absorb Taiwan, if China is 3x larger than the USA.

AndrewS said:

On the other hand, suppose Xi tries to take Taiwan and FAILS.

He won't be remembered as being as great as Mao. History will judge him a failure.

That is why I think it can wait.

As the decades go on, China's power will continue to grow.
It should be relatively easy to absorb Taiwan, if China is 3x larger than the USA.

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Well either way, Xi is the designated great man or fall guy

Even in 2050 if it fails, who is going to take the blame?

XI himself willing to be the fall guy the villain on earth if fails. This way he would buffer the blame . Better for country if one guy to take the whole blame than the entire country blamed

I understand your viewpoint. 2050? I mean for real , people outside of China prefer China not taking Taiwan.

Oldschool said:

Well either way, Xi is the designated great man or fall guy

Even in 2050 if it fails, who is going to take the blame?

XI himself willing to be the fall guy the villain on earth if fails. This way he would buffer the blame . Better for country if one guy to take the whole blame than the entire country blamed

I understand your viewpoint. 2050? I mean for real , people outside of China prefer China not taking Taiwan.

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America is forcing a "who can pull the rug from out underneath the other persons feet first" dynamic... China pull is to crash the petrodollar hegemony, US pull is to use strongarm sanctions to chokehold China from IC chips the new digital OPEC. Sure China ideally prefers strategic patience, but of course the enemy is already exploiting that to China detriment

In a post peak oil world and shrinking zerosum earth, China growth must come at expense of US losses... China dont have until 2050 to act, it must act now or never. 2025 timeline is all its got

From an energy, entropy, and thermodynamic prospective this is ths reality on the ground, the math dont lie

One way or another, expect a lot to happen rapidly within the next five years.

Even if China dont move on TW within five years, TW gonna declare indepedence by then anyway.. its moot point.

Th

ansy1968 said:

@ILikeChina so no DUVL only wafer equipment.

SMIC signed an order with ASML Holding N.V. for the purchase of its products used in the production of wafers for a total amount of $1.2 billion, the company said in an announcement today.

@Oldschool @WTAN @foofy

SMIC has a 300mm wafer fab in Shanghai, a 200mm foundry and a 300mm advanced equipment process foundry joint venture that it actually owns. This must be the new SN1 12inch wafer plant in Shanghai?

It has a 300mm wafer fab and a 300mm wafer fab holding in Beijing; a 200mm fab in Tianjin and a 200mm fab in Shenzhen; and a 300mm joint venture holding in Jiangyin. And this one in Beijing or it is still under construction? What I know the plan SMIC 12 inch Beijing wafer plant use domestic equipment?

Click to expand...

There was an article in this forum not long ago showcasing China's locally made Wafer Production Equipment.
Future Wafer Plants will use the China made equipment but current FABs will still use foreign equipment.
I think the SMIC order may have been placed with ASML last year (starting March 16, 2020) and only revealed recently.

ILikeChina said:

The purchases at ASML continue.

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ansy1968 said:

@ILikeChina so no DUVL only wafer equipment.

SMIC signed an order with ASML Holding N.V. for the purchase of its products used in the production of wafers for a total amount of $1.2 billion, the company said in an announcement today.

@Oldschool @WTAN @foofy

SMIC has a 300mm wafer fab in Shanghai, a 200mm foundry and a 300mm advanced equipment process foundry joint venture that it actually owns. This must be the new SN1 12inch wafer plant in Shanghai?

It has a 300mm wafer fab and a 300mm wafer fab holding in Beijing; a 200mm fab in Tianjin and a 200mm fab in Shenzhen; and a 300mm joint venture holding in Jiangyin. And this one in Beijing or it is still under construction? What I know the plan SMIC 12 inch Beijing wafer plant use domestic equipment?

Click to expand...

i think “wafer production” just industry lingo for chip making equipment and that includes lithography systems

lithography and measurement systems is ASML’s product as far as i’m aware

WTAN said:

Th

There was an article in this forum not long ago showcasing China's locally made Wafer Production Equipment.
Future Wafer Plants will use the China made equipment but current FABs will still use foreign equipment.
I think the SMIC order may have been placed with ASML last year (starting March 16, 2020) and only revealed recently.

Click to expand...

@WTAN thanks for the info, this $1.2 billion will be the last purchase of ASML equipment by SMIC and we had to thank Trump for the sanction otherwise SMIC may decided to buy even more. I think we are in the final stretch of the long march for tech independence.

Global chips shortage has forced the Biden's administration to relax the restriction for matured equipment sooner. I do think anything 14nm and above would get approved.

KYli said:

Global chips shortage has forced the Biden's administration to relax the restriction for matured equipment sooner. I do think anything 14nm and above would get approved.

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Mofset prices going up, Nvidia gonna use this as excuse to raise prices again..

Pretty soon the rtx3090 is going to cost $3090

SLI is over, not only can you not fit two rtx3090 into same cpu case since each now takes up all three pci slots the cost is now astronomical nevermind the heat generation is like an oven

I was playing Cyberpunk 2077, getting like 25fps on rtx3070 card, 32fps on rtx3080card and 38 fps on rtx3090 card... bare in mind the rtx3090 costs 3x times the rtx3070... we not getting 3x improvements tho

We have reached Peak gaming folks...
How else to explain things like DLSS which fakes a 4k resolution by using "AI" to smartly upsample 1080p or 1440p native resolution... it just doesnt scale up anymore, point of deminishing returns at resolution

BTW most 4k games are not 4 times the polygons or texture mapping compared to a 1080p game, its the same polygon count and textures just rendered at higher res... there are no real "4k" games in the strictest sense... an analogy would be if you playing minecraft at 8k the scenery itself still going to look blocky

And because of the way 3d geometry works the most bang for buck visual improvement happens rather early on, once you exceed the uncanny valley threshold extra polygons dont scale and themselves reach point of deminishing returns... just like most peopls cannot tell the visual difference between 8k vs 4k tv while its easy to discern 1080p vs 720p etc