Chinese semiconductor industry

WTAN said:

Yes thats right. This SMIC plant in Beijing is for the localised 28nm Production Line.
It will use the SMEE 28nm DUVL and have all localy made Semiconductor Equipment.
It is an important project which will give China greater independence in Semiconductor production.

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I think its a JV half owned by Beijing government. Beijing government is more sensitive politically and No American tech in whatever they do.
Whereas SMIC, with alot of taiwanese engineer influence prefer to work with more established western or US equipments .

Oldschool said:

I think its a JV half owned by Beijing government. Beijing government is more sensitive politically and No American tech in whatever they do.
Whereas SMIC, with alot of taiwanese engineer influence prefer to work with more established western or US equipments .

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@WTAN @Oldschool @foofy and @gelgoog

Thanks very much, How stupid of me not realizing the "S" designation stand for Shanghai @WTAN Seems like your statement about rivalries between Beijing and Shanghai and its affiliated company CETC and SMEE is true. This will accelerate SMIC FAB development as they implement a two way approach. Maximizing its 14nm and 12nm tech (SN1) which is not cover by the sanction while developing a domestic equivalent(Beijing Phase 1), what I'm worried about is their N+1 and N+2 node it will be again delay for the next 2 years

foofy said:

The 49.7 billion SMIC Beijing City Phase I project is expected to be completed in 2024, with a monthly production capacity of approximately 100,000 12-inch wafers. (mostly domestic equipment)

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@foofy an English version of your post

From CnTechPost

SMIC builds $7.7 billion fab in Beijing, first phase expected to be completed by 2024​

February 23, 2021
Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corporation (SMIC), China's leading contract chipmaker, has invested RMB 49.7 billion ($7.7 billion) in a fab in Beijing, with the first phase of the project scheduled for completion in 2024.
SMIC, together with China Integrated Circuit Investment Industry Fund and Beijing E-Town International Investment & Development Co Ltd, established SMIC Jingcheng Integrated Circuit Manufacturing on December 7, 2020, which was by the Beijing Yizhuang Developer Government on February 23.
SMIC Jingcheng's Phase I project is currently under construction and is expected to cost approximately RMB 7.6 billion and will have a capacity of approximately 100,000 12-inch wafers per month upon completion.

(SMIC's fab phase I project site in Beijing)

The area of the SMIC Jingcheng Phase I project is approximately 240,000 square meters, including the FAB3P1 production plant and supporting buildings and structures.
SMIC has multiple 8-inch and 12-inch production sites in Shanghai, Beijing, Tianjin, and Shenzhen, China, with a combined capacity of 450,000 wafers per month (on an 8-inch basis) as of the end of 2019.
SMIC's market share in 2019 is approximately 5%, ranking 5th globally, with a 16% market share in China.

Amazing achievement. First in the world fab with fully 100% indigenous technology and equipment at such high resolution: 28 nm, and soon 14 nm.

Congrats China :cheers:

ILikeChina said:

Amazing achievement. First in the world fab with fully 100% indigenous technology and equipment at such high resolution: 28 nm, and soon 14 nm.

Congrats China :cheers:

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Should have started this a decade ago but better late than never, imagine if Trump hadnt tipped his hand, then when US finally use the IC card it could hurt China much more severely...by then China would be even more entrenched

I still think there is a good chance America can anyday declare an outright chip sanction to all of China. As in no chips go to China period, thus overnight forcing all companies to pull out and go to Vietnam or India. It would cause global pain but then again so did Covid. This is the only chance America has of rerouting the global supply chain by using the technological chokehold and pressure points to hold the world hostage and force everyone to bypass and isolate China. It would be a bold risky move but its the best remaining trick the US has left

US will figure that short of full scale nuclear war, that this wholesale chip ban would be last ditch effort.

In the 4th industrial revolution and the age of AI, chips and chip fabbing supply chain are the new oil and America has found its new OPEC; Cutting China off all chips will be akin to oil embargo of Japan

Like WMD pretext for invasion of Iraq, they have lined up the genocide declarations to make this more platable when they take this action and the economic toil that comes from this will be blamed on the "China Virus" and how China owes the world reparations

I hope this never happenz but I wont be least bit shocked or surprised if/when it does... If I was the US and saw my hegemony slipping away and nothing else has really worked so far, its what I would do.

quantumlight said:

Should have started this a decade ago but better late than never, imagine if Trump hadnt tipped his hand, then when US finally use the IC card it could hurt China much more severely...by then China would be even more entrenched

I still think there is a good chance America can anyday declare an outright chip sanction to all of China. As in no chips go to China period, thus overnight forcing all companies to pull out and go to Vietnam or India. It would cause global pain but then again so did Covid. This is the only chance America has of rerouting the global supply chain by using the technological chokehold and pressure points to hold the world hostage and force everyone to bypass and isolate China. It would be a bold risky move but its the best remaining trick the US has left

US will figure that short of full scale nuclear war, that this wholesale chip ban would be last ditch effort.

In the 4th industrial revolution and the age of AI, chips and chip fabbing supply chain are the new oil and America has found its new OPEC; Cutting China off all chips will be akin to oil embargo of Japan

Like WMD pretext for invasion of Iraq, they have lined up the genocide declarations to make this more platable when they take this action and the economic toil that comes from this will be blamed on the "China Virus" and how China owes the world reparations

I hope this never happenz but I wont be least bit shocked or surprised if/when it does... If I was the US and saw my hegemony slipping away and nothing else has really worked so far, its what I would do.

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I would add that a blanket chip ban (as in no chips can even enter China even if only to be used strictly for the manufacturing process of a US product by a US company, example if Intel chips can no longer be shipped to China then Dell cannot make its laptops inside of China anymore and will be forced to pull out etc) is much more devasting than even the threat of kicking China out of SWIFT. Money is a human social construct and the world doesn't actually need a defacto global reserve currency, literally when push comes to shove even a barter system would more or less work, and with the technology available today, if the US were to kick China out of SWIFT, the rest of the world can adopt the Chinese eYuan in the blink of an eye, there is no reason to use the US dollar when it comes down to it.

But an all out chip ban would be much more different. You cannot cheat the laws of physics, either China can make its own chips or it cannot. In this modern digital age chips are everything, or rather they are the critical element without which you don't have the Internet of Things, almost all modern appliances uses chips, almost all of these smart devices, even cars, to refrigerators, to basically every concievable component these days either has a chip or relies on the use of a chip in its manufacturing process. In fact we cannot even make a chip without using another chip, nor in this age can we create a compiler without using another compiler or design a computer without using a computer etc...

So how they would go about effecuating this end goal or strategic objective would be any number of options but in terms of likelyhood and explaining the "MO" of its past adventures, most likely a Gulf of Tonkin/ USS Liberty type of "Operation Northwoods" false flag in or around the SCS/ECS/TW area to be framed/blamed on China as the aggressor to spark a regional kinetic action that may or may not involve the missile strike of TSMC. (whether by the Chinese or American side) After such a kinetic event is when the US would declare an outright chip ban on all of China and that any nation that went against this would itself find itself on the recieving end of kinetic action...

my opinion is that no one can stop China. Even if the whole world unites and no one will trade with China (which is impossible for another world economy), China can deploy industry in the provinces and trade with each other. China has more inhabitants than America, Europe and Russia combined. It is only important that it masters basic technologies.

Asko said:

my opinion is that no one can stop China. Even if the whole world unites and no one will trade with China (which is impossible for another world economy), China can deploy industry in the provinces and trade with each other. China has more inhabitants than America, Europe and Russia combined. It is only important that it masters basic technologies.

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Not correct, even if China master all technology in the world right now, it would still need to trade for raw resources.

China only has five years of oil left, without imports its economy would collapse.

That fast breeder is at least 20 years away from commercialization and scaling up... minimum... thats not soon enough to save China if the entire world were to cut if off, fusion is much further away

Of course these are extreme examples, Im sure even in absolute worse case some countries would still trade with China but you get the point

China needs to up the infowar game and its pitch to the world should be that US hegemon tax is going to kill the world by constriction and that a strong counterbalancing China is in the best interest of mankind, that China can offer the world a better deal.

Biden already pitching "America is Back" meanwhile Trump says he is presumptive nominee 2024

Its all an elaborate act, the US inflicting 5th Gen infowar on the world

China is way too advanced in semiconductors for US to stop their development. US has only imposed short-term pain, but long-term, China will be the winner because it focuses on self-indigenization of core technologies. Unlike US, China actually has the world's leading market to consuming semiconductors, so the incentive is enormous for self-indigenization.

Also, as Moore's law slows down due to approaching 1nm physical limit, it presents and opportunity for China to catch-up. Catching-up is easier than innovating, so time is on CHina's side.

Phead128 said:

China is way too advanced in semiconductors for US to stop their development. US has only imposed short-term pain, but long-term, China will be the winner because it focuses on self-indigenization of core technologies. Unlike US, China actually has the world's leading market to consuming semiconductors, so the incentive is enormous for self-indigenization.

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US can only use this card once, but it can still do one last punch in China stomach by declaring an immediate and total ban of chips to China... it knows backtracking to a preTrump ban is already too late, China will make max effort towards independence from now on no matter what, so its only card left is to dig in even more deeply and go for max ban to speed-bump China as much as possible even if it cannot reverse the tide long term...