Chinese semiconductor industry

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Overbom

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tonyget said:
There is no sign of that happening any time soon. Remember Chinese gov reduced import tariff to zero on semiconductor equipments，and setup a fast customs clearance channel for semiconductor companies to import equipments. That is the sign of facilitating import foreign equipment，not restricting it.
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Both things can be true at the same time. The domestic semiconductor equioment industry cannot fully fulfill the demand for IC expansion currently

That means that until the domestic equipment industry production is ramped up, China won't just sit and wait for that to happen. Instead, it is firing in all cylinders with fully supporting domestic industry while at the same time promoting quick deliveries of semiconductor equipment from foreign countries.

This is temporary though, people shouldn't be mistaken. The moment domestic equipment production can supply domestic demand, purchases of foreign equipment will be significantly curtailed
 
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tokenanalyst

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China Micro Corporation23Q1 achieves rapid growth and continues to highlight the leading advantages of etching​


Both CCP and ICP processes have been upgraded, and the advanced logic & 3D NAND space has been further opened up 1) CCP: has entered the 2D and 3D storage production lines. Damascus (28nm and below logic) and high aspect ratio (storage) processes have made good progress. China Microelectronics carry out the research and development of 60:1 aspect ratio equipment in 2021, which is expected to play a vital role in future storage expansion. 2) 1GP: The process covers more than 100 links, and has obtained repeated orders in batches in advanced packaging, 2.5D packaging and MGU fields. In 2022, on the basis of a single Nanov SE machine, the company will launch two ICP equipment, Nanova VE for high aspect ratio structure etching and Nanova UE for high uniformity etching, which will enrich the types of ICP products: internal promotion + epitaxy to create high-end

　　equipment platform business

　　1) Neisheng: The tungsten CD developed by the company has excellent step coverage and filling ability, and can meet multiple key applications in 64/128-layer 3D NAND of advanced logic devices. The ALD tungsten equipment under development has started with key customers Docking verification, ALD titanium amide equipment for high-end storage and logic devices is also steadily advancing and entering the laboratory testing stage.
 
tphuang

tphuang

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Overbom said:
Both things can be true at the same time. The domestic semiconductor equioment industry cannot fully fulfill the demand for IC expansion currently

That means that until the domestic equipment industry production is ramped up, China won't just sit and wait for that to happen. Instead, it is firing in all cylinders with fully supporting domestic industry while at the same time promoting quick deliveries of semiconductor equipment from foreign countries.

This is temporary though, people shouldn't be mistaken. The moment domestic equipment production can supply domestic demand, purchases of foreign equipment will be significantly curtailed
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depends on the supplier. I would say reduced, but there are certain areas like lithography that they will definitely still import from Nikon & ASML. The market is large enough for multiple foreign SMEs. In other areas like etching machines, they will over time no longer need AMAT/Lam once Chinese suppliers can produce equipment at close to the same capability and reliability. This should be achievable in the next few years as domestic fabs continue to work with NAURA, AMEC & ....

I would just say that it's quite interesting today for me to see that SMIC is committing as much to capex for logic nodes as Samsung. I've known that SMIC is adding a lot of capacity in 28nm+, but it would have no way of spending as much as Samsung unless it's also committed to add similar level of advanced node capacity
 
PhSt

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So back in November 2022, The US banned Huawei equipment from the US market due to its supposed "security risks."

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But fast-forward to today, the US has expressed "concerns" about China's decision to restrict sales of American chips in the Chinese market. :rolleyes:

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Honestly, this double-faced game being played by the US is getting irritating
 
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tokenanalyst

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PhSt said:
So back in November 2022, The US banned Huawei equipment from the US market due to its supposed "security risks."

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But fast-forward to today, the US has expressed "concerns" about China's decision to restrict sales of American chips in the Chinese market. :rolleyes:

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Honestly, this double-faced game being played by the US is getting irritating
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And is not even comparable man, Micron is probably banned for certain products and mostly of goverment use, while the bulk of their revenue comes from smarthphones, PCs and other products. Meanwhile Huawei is not only banned in the US, if the was the case that wouldn't be a problem, but that the U.S. is actively trying to kill Huawei.
Imagine if China did no only banned Micron for China but also goes in a lobbying campaign against Micron trying to get it ban not only in Pakistan for example but also in the entire world, that they made impossible for Micron to get the equipment and software they need to make their chips, that Micron has now to make everything from the ground up, that now has to invest most of their profits on surviving, imagine that the Micron CFO is arrested on trumped charges and take as hostage for the only reason of making the US, Biden and Micron look bad. Let be honest, we will be on the road of WW3.​
 
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tphuang said:
depends on the supplier. I would say reduced, but there are certain areas like lithography that they will definitely still import from Nikon & ASML. The market is large enough for multiple foreign SMEs. In other areas like etching machines, they will over time no longer need AMAT/Lam once Chinese suppliers can produce equipment at close to the same capability and reliability. This should be achievable in the next few years as domestic fabs continue to work with NAURA, AMEC & ....

I would just say that it's quite interesting today for me to see that SMIC is committing as much to capex for logic nodes as Samsung. I've known that SMIC is adding a lot of capacity in 28nm+, but it would have no way of spending as much as Samsung unless it's also committed to add similar level of advanced node capacity
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I'm new to the nomenclature, does advanced mean mature nodes or newer ones?
 
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Eventine

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tokenanalyst said:
And is not even comparable man, Micron is probably banned for certain products and mostly of goverment use, while the bulk of their revenue comes from smarthphones, PCs and other products. Meanwhile Huawei is not only banned in the US, if the was the case that wouldn't be a problem, but that the U.S. is actively trying to kill Huawei.
Imagine if China did no only banned Micron for China but also goes in a lobbying campaign against Micron trying to get it ban not only in Pakistan for example but also in the entire world, that they made impossible for Micron to get the equipment and software they need to make their chips, that Micron has now to make everything from the ground up, that now has to invest most of their profits on surviving, imagine that the Micron CFO is arrested on trumped charges and take as hostage for the only reason of making the US, Biden and Micron look bad. Let be honest, we will be on the road of WW3.​
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The US believes it holds more cards in the exchange and can escalate further than China; for this reason it believes it can push for double standards. This is nothing surprising from the Americans as they do it every where. If you ask US politicians they’ll say to the effect that they’re being merciful to Huawei and can do much worse like by cutting it off from the dollar.

The sooner China can close all the gaps, the better. There’s not much value in getting angry about it.
 
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Overbom

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Japan is about to murder its IC equipment industry

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China fears Japan’s chipmaking curbs go further than US restrictions​

New export rules could encompass equipment for making older-generation semiconductors

China’s semiconductor industry fears Japanese curbs on exports of crucial chipmaking equipment will be so broad that they risk hitting its production of lower-grade silicon, used in everything from cars to washing machines. Tokyo has said it intends to put restrictions on exports of 23 types of crucial chipmaking equipment from July, as it aligns itself with the US and the Netherlands in implementing sweeping export controls that could limit China’s access to cutting-edge chips.

However, Chinese industry executives who have examined the fine print of the intended rules say they could potentially go further than the US in restricting China’s ability to make semiconductors. “Japan’s export controls will be more disturbing to China than Washington’s sanctions last year,” said a Chinese chip factory executive, who did not wish to be named.

However, Japan’s specifications encompass chips as basic as 45nm, in export controls for equipment such as that used in immersion lithography provided by Nikon, because some of the technology can be essential in producing advanced chips.

A Chinese government official who works closely with chipmakers said the Dutch lithography giant ASML only expected restrictions on machines that produced advanced chips, while its smaller rival Nikon would face more extensive limits in Japan.

One person close to ASML said the company was still awaiting final details from the Dutch government, which is expected to spell out its restrictions by mid-July.

“What the Japanese government is saying is that they will require licences for everything — whether they grant those licences or not is the question . . . the Japanese are further ahead than us,” the person said.

“We are concerned about whether the US and Netherlands governments will issue export controls as strict as Japan’s,” said a government official working closely with Chinese fabrication plants.
 
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