Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
- Start date
- Status
It is peanuts. That works out to about 9 million a firm. That's not enough to even buy a lithography machine. It's so small it makes me question the veracity of the report. At that level, you might as well have done nothing.
The article also mentions this
"The 10 largest recipients received 45 per cent of the payouts, amounting to 5.46 billion yuan, according to a report on Sunday from Chinese media outlet ijiwei, which compiled the data from Wind, a financial data provider. Corporate filings from the top 10 firms confirms the subsidy amounts."
Even so, I'm surprised at the paltry amounts given out. Maybe the Big Fund is being more cautious given the (relatively) recent corruptions scandal?
the article is by SCMP. Not exactly a place with sterling record. There is that picture i posted a while back of the supports that got commited by big fund. YMTC alone got around $2B for the second fab. On top of that, all the local govt also give money. People really need to chill. Central and local govt provide plenty of money for Chinese semiconductor industry.
I think you confused subsidy with funding. They are totally different in nuture.
A leaked transcript of a recent interview with CITIC securities equity research MD.
Lots of information (has now been deleted unfortunately), but some takeaways:
1. Big stimulus expected in Q2 2023.
2. MIIT is now in charge of China's semiconductor projects instead of MOST
3. A high-level working group on ICT industry was founded in April and is headed by Vice Premier and MIIT senior officials - selection of expert team and enterprises began in Q4 2022
4. Big Fund will not be abolished but will prioritize technological breakthroughs over market returns
5. Projects will be enterprise-focused and led by enterprises instead of academia
6. 20% of SMIC's equipment is now domestic and is being used in production; YMTC's domestic equipment share is 30%
7. YMTC does not need a high-end lithography machine. Company is expected to build a de-Americanized, domestic equipment line in 2024 with a 1000-wafer production (per month?) capacity for testing purposes
8. Shenyang Fortune and Kunshan Kinglai, apparently, are semiconductor parts suppliers to Lam, AMAT, and TEL (50% of their revenue comes from US clients)
9. Huawei is in charge of lithography machine development and 28nm machine will take 2-3 years to develop
10. No need to worry about semiconductor materials and gases as there are many domestic alternatives
11. AI data centers are all required to use Chinese chips; Domestic GPU makes up 3-5% for companies like Baidu and Alibaba
12. Compatibility issues with LoongArch is being resolved - domestic companies developing compatible software and foreign software can be accessed by emulator
13. All levels of government and SOEs will be required to use domestic equipment and CPU in the next few years so huge boost for domestic companies
14. MOF plans to establish a RMB 500 billion fund dedicated to equipment and materials but recipients will be classified for obvious reasons.
15. New strategy will focus on M&A and integration to create state champions
16. Chinese equipment companies allow fabs to trial-run equipment for free vs. Overseas equipment companies that require payment upfront
Take it with a grain of salt but more exciting news is coming for sure...
Lots of information (has now been deleted unfortunately), but some takeaways:
1. Big stimulus expected in Q2 2023.
2. MIIT is now in charge of China's semiconductor projects instead of MOST
3. A high-level working group on ICT industry was founded in April and is headed by Vice Premier and MIIT senior officials - selection of expert team and enterprises began in Q4 2022
4. Big Fund will not be abolished but will prioritize technological breakthroughs over market returns
5. Projects will be enterprise-focused and led by enterprises instead of academia
6. 20% of SMIC's equipment is now domestic and is being used in production; YMTC's domestic equipment share is 30%
7. YMTC does not need a high-end lithography machine. Company is expected to build a de-Americanized, domestic equipment line in 2024 with a 1000-wafer production (per month?) capacity for testing purposes
8. Shenyang Fortune and Kunshan Kinglai, apparently, are semiconductor parts suppliers to Lam, AMAT, and TEL (50% of their revenue comes from US clients)
9. Huawei is in charge of lithography machine development and 28nm machine will take 2-3 years to develop
10. No need to worry about semiconductor materials and gases as there are many domestic alternatives
11. AI data centers are all required to use Chinese chips; Domestic GPU makes up 3-5% for companies like Baidu and Alibaba
12. Compatibility issues with LoongArch is being resolved - domestic companies developing compatible software and foreign software can be accessed by emulator
13. All levels of government and SOEs will be required to use domestic equipment and CPU in the next few years so huge boost for domestic companies
14. MOF plans to establish a RMB 500 billion fund dedicated to equipment and materials but recipients will be classified for obvious reasons.
15. New strategy will focus on M&A and integration to create state champions
16. Chinese equipment companies allow fabs to trial-run equipment for free vs. Overseas equipment companies that require payment upfront
Take it with a grain of salt but more exciting news is coming for sure...
D
Deleted member 24525
Guest
Most of this looks very plausible but the one thing that seems weird is point 9. I don't see why Huawei would be put in charge of overall lithography development instead of the CETC or CAS. Also the claim that 28nm will take another 2-3 years seems pessimistic, but maybe they are talking about serial production.
Well, some of this stuff seems to make sense while other stuff like YMTC expecting a de-americanized line in 2024 with just 1k capacity and Huawei being in charge of 28nm machine seem to not agree with other sources we have seen
Domestic GPUs only making up 3-5% for companies like Baidu also seems really low given Baidu uses a lot of its own Kunlunxin GPUs and was said to plan to use 50% domestic GPUs for Erniebot
I'm actually not sure how this can be considered exciting news
Yes, the original interview said it will take 2-3 years to be used on production lines.
I was referring to the other parts of the interview (ie the specialized fund for equipment and materials part). I think the idea is that the prospect of growth is very large for these companies involved in the Xinchuang business. The interview estimated a market of RMB 20 billion a year for companies like Loongson and Hygon. I'm not a GPU/CPU expert so I can't comment much on that. I think the guy who got interviewed was covering a lot of different subsectors all at once and there will be a few places that don't align with what we see on the forum or people who are actual experts in these areas. But it's great seeing finance people in China having more optimism and confidence in the semiconductor industry vs. before when it's all doom and gloom.
- Status