Chinese semiconductor industry

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PopularScience

PopularScience

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hvpc said:
Hey, you are free to believe what you want.

If you are familiar with what actually took place then you wouldn’t be making these types of comment. You don’t know exact detail…all you are doing is extrapolating, and at best, making educated guesses. Now I’m more certain you are not from my industry and do not have good insight into what happen at tsmc. :D
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7nm mass production April 2018

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2020年8月台积电在官方部落格宣布，7nm制程晶片于2018年4月正式投入量产，直至2020年7月已生产出第10亿颗功能完好、没有缺陷的晶片，达成新的里程碑。


ASML started shipment nxt2000i in 2018 second quarter.

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ASML started volume shipments of its new Twinscan NXT:2000i step-and-scan systems last quarter and will ramp up production of the new tools in the coming years. Traditionally, the company does not disclose MSRPs of its equipment as final prices depend on multiple factors, including volumes.
 
tphuang

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Alright, I'm not sure it's productive to argue back and forth about the exact model that TSMC used in producing its first 7nm. @hvpc don't be annoying, we are all trying to contribute here for better understanding.

btw, I think having something at NXT1950i level is perfectly fine. If they can mass produce it and it can operate at a profitable performance level for SMIC, YMTC and Huawei, then that covers their immediate needs. We've already discussed how SMIC likely has enough lithography machine of 2050i and 1980i for its planned SMSC expansion. If they are waiting on something, it's likely not front end scanners at this point. So any Arfi scanner requirement they have is likely for SMIC Capital JV and/or Lingang plant. To me, it's more important for them to get SMEE into mass production and for it to be able to produce 28 nm node profitably than be concerned whether it can be used for 14nm process. If they can get the basics right, I'm sure more advanced models won't be far away.
 
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tokenanalyst

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The MagLev dual wafer stage with a precision 2.5nm developed between UPrecision and Tsinghua which can be used for immersion and EUVL has been delivered this year. Also there is pretty convincing evidence in the research and patent literature of the development of high precision overlay grating systems dating back 2019-2020, they are aiming for a step and scan machine that can do the finest nano patterns in high volume.

Overall I still think China needs to do an all war effort in nano and micro patterning. Projection lithography, EUV, immersion, DUV, LED UV, nanoimprint lithography, Xray lithography, self assembly, maskless lithography: multi-Ebeam lithography, UV laser lithography, DLP lithography, SLM lithography, ion beam lithography. And so on. Having a strong nano and micro patterning industry will definitely ensure the position in the electronic industry.
 
tphuang

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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1607086584662487040
thanks to @olalavn for posting this on his thread. I read through this. It seems like msm has certain perspective and they will only push that perspective regardless of what other evidences show. Huahong is absolutely expanding mature node production with their own money, but HLMC JV is expanding its production also, but with money most likely from gov't. And the entire setup allows them to be non-transparent about where they are in technology. SMIC is also massively expanding mature node production, but they are also being secretive about the expansion of SMSC production, as we discussed with the mysterious large orders for ASML lithography machines.
 
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canonicalsadhu

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Hua Hong has also acted to localise its suppliers in areas such as equipment and materials, according to three people familiar with the matter. In addition, it is giving domestic customers higher priority.
Earlier this year, the chipmaker cut orders several times from foreign customers in order to prioritise domestic companies as its production capacity became overstretched, according to four Hua Hong employees who did not wish to be named.
Hua Hong’s products for original equipment manufacturers are increasingly competing with Germany’s Infineon and the US’s Texas Instruments.
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tokenanalyst

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Hua Hong’s products for original equipment manufacturers are increasingly competing with Germany’s Infineon and the US’s Texas Instruments.
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HHGrace is a pure and play foundry and they don't compete directly with TI or Infineon, instead they make the chips of fabless companies that may compete against TI or Infineon. Also in theory TI and infineon could have their chips made on HH if they need extra capacity.
 
FairAndUnbiased

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tokenanalyst said:
The MagLev dual wafer stage with a precision 2.5nm developed between UPrecision and Tsinghua which can be used for immersion and EUVL has been delivered this year. Also there is pretty convincing evidence in the research and patent literature of the development of high precision overlay grating systems dating back 2019-2020, they are aiming for a step and scan machine that can do the finest nano patterns in high volume.

Overall I still think China needs to do an all war effort in nano and micro patterning. Projection lithography, EUV, immersion, DUV, LED UV, nanoimprint lithography, Xray lithography, self assembly, maskless lithography: multi-Ebeam lithography, UV laser lithography, DLP lithography, SLM lithography, ion beam lithography. And so on. Having a strong nano and micro patterning industry will definitely ensure the position in the electronic industry.
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We already know what are dead ends. Projection lithography is the mainstream technology used for all current lithography technologies (dry KrF, dry ArF, immersion, EUV), the counterpart of projection lithography is contact lithography which is obsolete. Maskless is cheaper for micron sized patterning. Ebeam is good for mask making.

I think that the current strategy of going for etch and deposition before taking on lithography is correct, in lowering the risk (lower unit costs, less multidisciplinary technology required) and increasing the reward (etch and deposition useful as well in photovoltaics, MEMS, display, analog, RF, packaging, not just logic). It isn't flashy but it sets a good foundation, and is what South Korea is trying to do as well. Japan tried this as well, and it also found that lithography is a very hard nut to crack. The difference is, China will have a domestic market capable of supporting what Japan never could.
 
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