Chinese semiconductor industry

Everyone circlejerking about US ban this and ban that need to realize China has fired ZERO shot in this protectionism war. Considering these ban are helping the domestic semiconductor effort why worry. Like what Napoleon said: never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. What had US achieved? Minimal damage to Chinese economy. Helped Chinese domestic chip production. Crippled its own semiconductor industry. Intel who is supposed to benefit the most is doing worse not better. So why should China copy a failed tactic?

Now in a hypothetical situation China does shoot back, the result will be devastating. So what if US ban x86 chips? If China ban rare earth to US they wont have any chips to sell in first place. This is just one card among many China can play.

Now the US TSMC plant is even funnier. These Taiwanese workers are basically sent to a patriotic reeducation camp. All the racism, unfair pay, unfair workload will be the best teacher. Xinjiang reeduction camp has nothing on these American middle managements in promoting patriotism. Sooner or later they will either pack up to Taiwan or go to China.

TK3600 said:

Everyone circlejerking about US ban this and ban that need to realize China has fired ZERO shot in this protectionism war.

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China did come out with own version of anti-sanction law last year，which made Chinese companies comply foreign laws illegal. But just like the "unreliable entity list" which is still blank to date. These measures are mere rhetoric，they don't seem to have any intention to actually implement or enforce it.

With all these whatnot talk on Chinese semiconductor sector not helped with the silence of Chinese media and fragmented news pieces everywhere, is there anyone with actual grasp on the overall picture tell me if China is pouring sizeable resources into the semicon supply china ?

olalavn said:

Hongmeng OS is not just for Huawei... Huawei has shared Hongmeng's source code with China... but... except Honor, and ex-Huawei employee companies...other companies they fear US sanctions more than tigers eat them...unless China solves all the chips on phones.. at least they will join in 2026-2027

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Isn't harmony os open source?
The source code is on gitee

hullopilllw said:

With all these whatnot talk on Chinese semiconductor sector not helped with the silence of Chinese media and fragmented news pieces everywhere, is there anyone with actual grasp on the overall picture tell me if China is pouring sizeable resources into the semicon supply china ?

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China is letting capital companies decide their small semiconductor companies, except for key technology companies... CPC will support them (state-owned, or semi-state-owned)

tonyget said:

China did come out with own version of anti-sanction law last year，which made Chinese companies comply foreign laws illegal. But just like the "unreliable entity list" which is still blank to date. These measures are mere rhetoric，they don't seem to have any intention to actually implement or enforce it.

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EU also has anti sanctions laws.

Pursuant to Art. 5(1) of the EU Blocking Regulation, EU operators are prohibited from complying “with any requirement or prohibition, including requests of foreign courts, based on or resulting, directly or indirectly” from a set of foreign sanctions laws deemed to apply extraterritorially by the European Union, “or from actions based thereon or resulting therefrom.” The laws in question are listed in the Regulation’s Annex; currently, all are US statutes. Art. 5(2) provides that the European Commission (the Commission) may, upon request, authorize EU operators to comply fully or partially with these laws, to the extent that noncompliance would seriously damage their interests or those of the European Union.

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They not only didn't use their own law, they actively ignored their own law. They tried to enforce their law and failed.

FairAndUnbiased said:

EU also has anti sanctions laws.

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They not only didn't use their own law, they actively ignored their own law. They tried to enforce their law and failed.

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Laws and regulations with extraterritorial scope are just a piece of paper if you don't have the power to enforce them.

US long-arm jurisdiction is a thing not because someone wrote it, but because US, as the hegemonic superpower, as the tools and the capability to enforce it.

Any random state can write his long-arm jurisdiction laws, but it would be just a laughing stock. Only US can do it, and does take advantage of it.

Europeans bureaucrats now came out with this rule that European companies should not follow US extraterritorial sanctions or they (the companies, not US!) could be persecuted. And regarding the US position on this, in the article is also clearly stated that:

"In the United States, has specifically rejected the idea of including, in its Enforcement Guidelines, the lawfulness of the conduct in another jurisdiction as a mitigating factor". IOW US does not give a f...k to what EU does.

At the end of the day, it is just pure power-play: might make right

european_guy said:

Definitely not. But OTH this means additional capacity for Chinese fabless firms. For SMIC to lose US companies is like to increase available capacity of 20%...but without building new fabs.

BTW SMIC biggest US customers are Qualcomm and Broadcom, so not exactly mature process, more like 28 / 65nm.

From high-level point of view, if US sanctions aim at slowing SMIC development, losing US customers goes in the oposite direction: there will be new capacity available for Chinese firms.

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It seems SMIC will not lose its US customers after all...


"Top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer and John Cornyn, a prominent Republican China hawk, unveiled a measure in September that would have required U.S. federal agencies and their contractors to stop using semiconductors manufactured at China's SMIC, as well as chips made by Chinese memory chip leaders YMTC and CXMT. The final version no longer forbids contractors from "using" the targeted chips"

Maybe they realized it was just damaging US companies for no gain: SMIC would have quickly filled that 20% capacity with Chinese orders.

Shanghai Xinyang: KrF photoresist has been mass-produced and sold, and the Hefei project equipment has entered the site​

Jiwei.com news (article/Yang Yanrou) On December 7, Shanghai Xinyang stated on the investor interaction platform that KrF photoresist has been mass-produced and sold, and new customers are also under continuous development.

In addition, Shanghai Xinyang also stated that the Hefei Xinyang project has not yet been put into operation, and some equipment has entered the site.

Previously, Shanghai Xinyang revealed in an investigation that the impact of the epidemic in Shanghai in the second quarter on its business was limited. The production of process chemical materials in the semiconductor business remains normal, and has created a record high in the production and shipment of chemicals in a single month since the establishment of the company; in the second quarter, the company's operating income from semiconductor chemical materials increased by 53.81% year-on-year. Among them, ultra-pure chemical materials for wafer manufacturing An increase of 139.39%. However, during the epidemic period, logistics and transportation costs increased significantly, labor costs also increased, and raw material prices rose. These circumstances had an impact on the performance in the first half of the year. The gross profit of process chemical materials decreased by 11.4% compared with the same period last year.

TK3600 said:

Everyone circlejerking about US ban this and ban that need to realize China has fired ZERO shot in this protectionism war. Considering these ban are helping the domestic semiconductor effort why worry. Like what Napoleon said: never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. What had US achieved? Minimal damage to Chinese economy. Helped Chinese domestic chip production. Crippled its own semiconductor industry. Intel who is supposed to benefit the most is doing worse not better. So why should China copy a failed tactic?

Now in a hypothetical situation China does shoot back, the result will be devastating. So what if US ban x86 chips? If China ban rare earth to US they wont have any chips to sell in first place. This is just one card among many China can play.

Now the US TSMC plant is even funnier. These Taiwanese workers are basically sent to a patriotic reeducation camp. All the racism, unfair pay, unfair workload will be the best teacher. Xinjiang reeduction camp has nothing on these American middle managements in promoting patriotism. Sooner or later they will either pack up to Taiwan or go to China.

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Btw, We have discussed a lot of these things in detail. I am really not a fan of turning this thread into national chest beating or china grievance kind of thread.

By this point, we know what the Chinese response is. All the largest American companies in china are suffering from these sanctions.

The tool makers are not getting anymore orders.

Boeing hasn't gotten a new order from china in 4 years and this is creating a real problem for them. At this pace, Boeing might have to exit commercial aviation!

Several American chip companies have had to downsize or leave china entirely.

There are buy china cpu/os policy instituted in many government and corporations for national security reasons. Really bad for apple and other American tech companies.

Let's just stick with that and stop speculating what else they might do in retaliation. That really offers nothing to this thread.