Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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Wang Meihua: TSMC has only 500 engineers in the United States! It is a normal exchange "no brain drain problem"​


In response to concerns that TSMC’s establishment of a factory in the United States may cause brain drain, Minister of Economic Affairs Wang Meihua quoted Liu Deyin, chairman of TSMC, as saying on the 1st that there are a total of 50,000 engineers at TSMC, and only 500 engineers went to the United States. “This is normal. Talent exchange, so there is no problem of brain drain.”

Economic Minister Wang Meihua. Photo/provided by Central News Agency
The White House announced that President Joe Biden will travel to Arizona on December 6 to attend the "First tool-in" ceremony held by TSMC. In this regard, Wang Meihua was interviewed and said that Biden's participation showed that he attached importance to TSMC's establishment of factories in the United States, and Taiwan will form a good supply relationship with the United States.

Regarding TSMC’s recent charter flights to fly more than 300 related engineers and their families to Arizona, the United States, which has caused doubts about talent exodus and technology hollowing out, Wang Meihua pointed out that Liu Deyin has explained that it is very “very easy” for TSMC’s relevant engineers to go to the new factory for construction. Normal talent exchange.” There are a total of 50,000 engineers at TSMC, and about 500 engineers went to the United States. “So there is no problem of brain drain.”

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According to some sources TSMC will send 1000+ engineers to the U.S. and dont think the U.S will stop there, if talents become difficult to find, TSMC could be forced to send even more engineers to the US. and D.C will make sure to put pressure so the DPP will comply to their requests.

People in the comments are not pretty happy with this.

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european_guy

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tokenanalyst said:

Wang Meihua: TSMC has only 500 engineers in the United States! It is a normal exchange "no brain drain problem"​

Click to expand...

In China there is the concept of "technology transfer" where foreign technicians go there and grow local talent.

This is not the US way.

In US there is the concept of "asset transfer". The Taiwanese engineers are simply part of the package.

TSMC will "move" to US, they will go there with tools, people and everything. US just wants TSMC to keep their current foundry services for them, but on US territory, so to shield US companies from possible escalations in Taiwan....and actually allowing US to foster an escalation in Taiwan in the future, like they (successfully) did in Ukraine.

In 2024 there will be presidential election in Taiwan, current government already lost local elections. All this will further help the opposition party...but we can expect a huge propaganda war for 2024 campaign, with censorship, total biased media, financial support, external interference and everything, US will fully support current government, and I mean fully: democracy is only good as long as people make the right choice.
 
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tokenanalyst

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european_guy said:
In China there is the concept of "technology transfer" where foreign technicians go there and grow local talent.

This is not the US way.

In US there is the concept of "asset transfer". The Taiwanese engineers are simply part of the package.

TSMC will "move" to US, they will go there with tools, people and everything. US just wants TSMC to keep their current foundry services for them, but on US territory, so to shield US companies from possible escalations in Taiwan....and actually allowing US to foster an escalation in Taiwan in the future, like they (successfully) did in Ukraine.

In 2024 there will be presidential election in Taiwan, current government already lost local elections. All this will further help the opposition party...but we can expect a huge propaganda war for 2024 campaign, with censorship, total biased media, financial support, external interference and everything, US will fully support current government, and I mean fully: democracy is only good as long as people make the right choice.
Click to expand...
Indeed. A strait war scenario worry them but I think the bigger deal to them is the lack of control on the flow of advance chips in the world, they are really worry about the high market share on chip manufacturing in Asia and they want to change that, i think the plan maybe to coerce Asian manufacturers to reallocate the majority of their manufacturing in the U.S. And this worry goes into chip making tooling too, Europe and Japan should be worry because U.S. may try coerce ASML and TEL to Americanize.
This desire of total control was probably exacerbated even more by the use of Western designed chips by the Russians in the Ukrainian war. So interesting times are ahead.​
 
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ansy1968

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european_guy said:
In 2024 there will be presidential election in Taiwan, current government already lost local elections. All this will further help the opposition party...but we can expect a huge propaganda war for 2024 campaign, with censorship, total biased media, financial support, external interference and everything, US will fully support current government, and I mean fully: democracy is only good as long as people make the right choice.
Click to expand...
Bro IF the Chinese stay idle which it won't, My opinion the inflection point is 2025 when TSMC Arizona FAB will be fully operation and the eventual introduction of a Chinese EUVL, while at the same time we may see the mass production of indigenous 7nm DUVL chip line. So the Chinese are prepare and will not take the American bait as shown by the patience of CCP leadership when Pelosi visited Taiwan. There are a lot of tools to use in retaliation and destroying your own property isn't the wisest choice.

And here I think the Chinese had already planted the foundation for self sufficiency and may not needed Taiwan to sustained it, okay it is a wild claimed any help is better than nothing BUT a Chinese sustaining eco system is emerging and the short sight American policy is accelerating the process. ;)
 
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ansy1968

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From my mentor @Oldschool , remember a conference summit were the CCP leadership call for a unify effort and to consolidate the gains made. Well Huawei answered the call as the Vanguard leading the campaign, I think the Chinese is preparing itself for a major offensive, transitioning from a guerilla outfit to a regular force, setting the stage for a HuaiHai like campaign that will decide the tech war with the US in 2025.

Oldschool​

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10 minutes agoNew
Under Huawei leadership, Alibaba and tencent joined the Huawei alliance. alleged, all of them pitched in total 400 Billion Yuan fund for semiconductor production.

I heard Fujian Jinhua and it's nearby neighbor a packaging company ShiYang with 2000 employees with 20 soccer field sized sites are hiring people and busy expanding for production. Huawei will be their main customers

Huawei right now are focusing on mature tech chips production for EV Autos.
I think Jinhua is reconfiguring for logic chip production.
 
tphuang

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ansy1968 said:
From my mentor @Oldschool , remember a conference summit were the CCP leadership call for a unify effort and to consolidate the gains made. Well Huawei answered the call as the Vanguard leading the campaign, I think the Chinese is preparing itself for a major offensive, transitioning from a guerilla outfit to a regular force, setting the stage for a HuaiHai like campaign that will decide the tech war with the US in 2025.

Oldschool​

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Registered Member
10 minutes agoNew
Under Huawei leadership, Alibaba and tencent joined the Huawei alliance. alleged, all of them pitched in total 400 Billion Yuan fund for semiconductor production.

I heard Fujian Jinhua and it's nearby neighbor a packaging company ShiYang with 2000 employees with 20 soccer field sized sites are hiring people and busy expanding for production. Huawei will be their main customers

Huawei right now are focusing on mature tech chips production for EV Autos.
I think Jinhua is reconfiguring for logic chip production.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think in this article that was posted a few days ago
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, they mentioned that Jinhua has basically found the major customer they needed in Huawei. It is not a great thing for Huawei to only be able to access fabs that are disregarded by everyone else.

If Huawei actually got Alibaba and Tencent to join (and I'm not convinced they would join with their competitor), then they should be putting money into NAURA, YMTC and SMIC for the latest tech and developing the latest tools. Where is SMIC getting their additional capex from? Local gov't, central gov't or Huawei or other large tech companies?

The last thing Huawei needs right now is more mature tech chip production for EVs. Every fab and their mother is expanding their MCUs, IGBTs and SiC production. Huawei needs to get back into leading edge process for Hisilicon. If there is one company that would be willing to tolerate low yield on advanced process, it would be Huawei.

I was reading something on Weibo today where someone's company recommends their employees to buy Huawei phones and avoid iPhones for work, because iPhones are considered security risk. If we get to a point where Chinese gov't requires/encourages all gov't employees and SOEs to use Chinese chips, memory and OS on their phones and desktop computers, then Huawei phones with Harmony OS would be the big winner. But for that to happen, they need to be able to build a somewhat advanced smartphone CPU. The power consumption is worse with chip stacking of older process? No problem, Huawei will install more advanced home developed battery technology on Chinese phones to compensate. Huawei needs to push hard on advanced node development and production.

Add that to the list of bad outcomes for America due to the sanctions:
- iPhone losing sales in China due to national security reasons
- Android OS losing market share in China due to national security reasons
 
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latenlazy

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tphuang said:
Yes, I think in this article that was posted a few days ago
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, they mentioned that Jinhua has basically found the major customer they needed in Huawei. It is not a great thing for Huawei to only be able to access fabs that are disregarded by everyone else.

If Huawei actually got Alibaba and Tencent to join (and I'm not convinced they would join with their competitor), then they should be putting money into NAURA, YMTC and SMIC for the latest tech and developing the latest tools. Where is SMIC getting their additional capex from? Local gov't, central gov't or Huawei or other large tech companies?

The last thing Huawei needs right now is more mature tech chip production for EVs. Every fab and their mother is expanding their MCUs, IGBTs and SiC production. Huawei needs to get back into leading edge process for Hisilicon. If there is one company that would be willing to tolerate low yield on advanced process, it would be Huawei.

I was reading something on Weibo today where someone's company recommends their employees to buy Huawei phones and avoid iPhones for work, because iPhones are considered security risk. If we get to a point where Chinese gov't requires/encourages all gov't employees and SOEs to use Chinese chips, memory and OS on their phones and desktop computers, then Huawei phones with Harmony OS would be the big winner. But for that to happen, they need to be able to build a somewhat advanced smartphone CPU. The power consumption is worse with chip stacking of older process? No problem, Huawei will install more advanced home developed battery technology on Chinese phones to compensate. Huawei needs to push hard on advanced node development and production.

Add that to the list of bad outcomes for America due to the sanctions:
- iPhone losing sales in China due to national security reasons
- Android OS losing market share in China due to national security reasons
Click to expand...
Huawei might be able to help Jinhua accelerate their development.
 
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