Bro same
BUT I'm realistic, IF ASML are willing partners helping China with Chinese specific advance DUVL like NXT 2050i and improved iteration in NXT 2100i then I welcome it, a healthy competition is good for everybody. 
Chinese semiconductor industry
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BUT I'm realistic, IF ASML are willing partners helping China with Chinese specific advance DUVL like NXT 2050i and improved iteration in NXT 2100i then I welcome it, a healthy competition is good for everybody. 
These are very important precursors but luckily theres many companies in China that produce TEOS and TDMAT. What is equally important is the delivery system.
Without revealing proprietary information, in general these highly air sensitive ALD precursors are delivered to customers in metal gasket sealed cases using CF flange lid and VCR fittings. Note, they are usually not O-ring sealed, as even the tiny amounts of water permeation through a Viton or even perfluoroelastomer O-ring may cause oxidation of the precursors which leads to a particle generating impurity. For instance, HfCl4 ALD precursor for high-k dielectric experiencing even a trace oxidation event (even high ppb/low ppm level), if not caught by QC, results in scrapping wafers because line nucleated HfO2 particles get distributed.
Delivery systems look something like this and
Solid one looks like a simple canister but if you see the inside (which is proprietary) every moving part such as the valves are selected for lowest atmospheric permeability, particle resistance and is designed to be uniformly heated. There's actually internal heat transfer fins holding the precursor with complicated shapes to maintain laminar flow of hot carrier gas and transfer heat from the walls. A liquid system is also complicated, this time involving active components such as valves, MFCs etc. It involves a bunch of unit operations such as gas bubbling (to remove particulate and acid/base impurities), liquid drying, bubbling through a specially formulated precursor solvent, hermetically sealed lines, etc. Luckily China has companies making this sort of equipment.
TSMC is in an oligopsony situation.. SmhA sign of things to come, Apple refuse to accept TSMC price hike. TSMC bargaining power is slowing ebbing, can't ask customer to pay extra premium especially IF its your only sole client for the 3nm technology, They are now regretting ditching Huawei....lol
The Mainland Chinese tech company had been reading this, the reason why they won't invest a battery factory in the US to service Apple, exclusivity is a double edge sword, your company may grow exponentially BUT you are at their mercy and whims.
And I'm thinking the much hype Apple Car is vaporware, expected to be release in 2025, by that time its Chinese Rivals had taken over the market. Hoping to seizes the premium segment with the downturn and incoming depression, good luck with that and lets see IF it hit the ground running.
With demand cascading and massive increase in FAB capacity, who among the major FABS will thrive?
Apple Reportedly Refuses to Accept TSMC Chip Price Hike
Wednesday September 28, 2022 6:29 am PDT by
Apple has reportedly refused to accept a price increase from its sole chip supplier, TSMC, according to .
The report claims that Apple, the largest customer of TSMC, has rejected the supplier's plans to increase chip prices next year. TSMC has been planning to increase its prices by six to nine percent, depending on the fabrication process.
TSMC's chips were already around 20 percent more expensive compared to those from its direct rivals, but smaller foundries have ramped up their own prices in recent years due to higher material and logistics costs, and TSMC has committed to $100 billion in new investment over the next three years, motivating the company to increase its prices to maintain its premium and pass added costs on to clients.
TSMC was also reportedly keen to stop its clients from and ordering more chips than needed in the hope of securing production line space and additional support from contract chipmakers, which has made it difficult for the company to understand real demand.
Following negotiations, Apple has apparently refused to accept further price increases. TSMC makes all of Apple's custom silicon chips, but Apple is estimated to make up more than one quarter of TSMC's entire revenue, meaning that the companies are fairly reliant upon each other. An improvement in the semiconductor industry's supply outlook despite inflation is believed to have hardened Apple's refusal to acquiesce to price hikes.
Like many of Apple's suppliers, TSMC has been wrestling with supply chain issues since 2020. Last year, it was speculated that Apple to account for substantial chip price rises.
@ansy1968, are you suggesting all fabs you listed will reach capacity and fully operational by 2024? Any idea how many total scanner systems this will require? How many total scanners do you foresee SMEE capable of delivery by 2024?Topline ASML are used in SN1 and SN2 FAB (100,000 wpm scalable to 150,000), expansion FAB in Beijing, Tianjin, Shenzhen, Shanghai Lingang and Chongqing will be using mix with majority domestic DUVL with IOC next year with full operation in 2024. Can SMEE deliver? with 4 months before 2023, yes it can!
The math doesn't seem to add up.
Makes me wonder how far along is Intels new high end fab?
Is there a change it will come online in next few years?
inbe4 TSMC goes into money problems so Intel with government money can buy those EUV machines for pennies on the dollars.
If they can get SN1/SN2 up to 70k wpm by 2024, I think most people here should be happy. Heard earlier that getting equipment for advanced nodes is hard. Maybe that will be easier now that domestic suppliers are further along. I don't know how much more they can expand SMSC location. Maybe Lingang will also do advanced node.
As for other stuff, my understanding is the Shenzhen fab is coming online this year. The Beijing one might start production next year but probably won't hit close to 100k until 2025. And then there is a second phase of 100k wpm. Lingang started construction in January, so probably a year behind Beijing and start production in 2024. Tianjin just started construction this week, so probably another 2024 production start. All of this will take a while. They will need to continue to buy Western equipments, especially ASML machines. It's important to not underestimate the difficulties of scaling up production of domestic equipment.
Interesting, looks like they are few companies making this kind of equipment,yet to see how advance they are or how independent they are to geopolitical trouble. Looks like is an area that still need some work to do.These are very important precursors but luckily theres many companies in China that produce TEOS and TDMAT. What is equally important is the delivery system.
Without revealing proprietary information, in general these highly air sensitive ALD precursors are delivered to customers in metal gasket sealed cases using CF flange lid and VCR fittings. Note, they are usually not O-ring sealed, as even the tiny amounts of water permeation through a Viton or even perfluoroelastomer O-ring may cause oxidation of the precursors which leads to a particle generating impurity. For instance, HfCl4 ALD precursor for high-k dielectric experiencing even a trace oxidation event (even high ppb/low ppm level), if not caught by QC, results in scrapping wafers because line nucleated HfO2 particles get distributed.
Delivery systems look something like this and
Solid one looks like a simple canister but if you see the inside (which is proprietary) every moving part such as the valves are selected for lowest atmospheric permeability, particle resistance and is designed to be uniformly heated. There's actually internal heat transfer fins holding the precursor with complicated shapes to maintain laminar flow of hot carrier gas and transfer heat from the walls. A liquid system is also complicated, this time involving active components such as valves, MFCs etc. It involves a bunch of unit operations such as gas bubbling (to remove particulate and acid/base impurities), liquid drying, bubbling through a specially formulated precursor solvent, hermetically sealed lines, etc. Luckily China has companies making this sort of equipment.
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