Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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So this looks to me like these ICs can be run on input voltage and directly interacting with the "high voltage" side, rather than say a MCU running at TTL voltage and controlling the high voltage through a relay or MOSFET. That would in turn eliminate the requirement for an external voltage regulator.

For instance a 24V motor controller is actually a MCU controller running on say, 5V, that outputs a 5V signal to a power MOSFET gate to switch 24V. But this can make a 24V motor controller that just outputs 24V.

Did I understand correctly?
I guess that basically means than the logic circuitry and the switching gates can operate on a singular voltage source without external circuits. Packaging for extreme conditions will be easier, that good news for NEV and other applications.

I wonder how tough this new materials are to extreme radiation? Can this kind of logic circuits operate inside a nuclear reactor for example?
 

weig2000

Captain

With new China AI chip restrictions, U.S. takes aim at a critical niche​


Sept 1 (Reuters) - The United States beefed up its effort to cut off the flow of advanced technology to China by instructing Nvidia Corp
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and Advanced Micro Devices
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to stop sending their flagship artificial intelligence chips there.

While the news shocked the chip sector by the time markets closed Thursday, sending the Philadelphia semiconductor index down 1.9% and Nvidia and AMD down 7.6% and 3% respectively, the letters from the U.S. officials appeared to target a narrow but critical part of China's computing industry.

The regulations appear to focus on chips called GPUs with the most powerful computing capabilities, a critical but niche market with only two meaningful players, Nvidia and AMD. Their only potential rival - Intel Corp
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- is trying to break into the market but has not released competitive products.

Originally designed for video games, the usage of GPUs, or graphic processing units, have been expanded to a wider array of applications that include handling artificial intelligence work like image recognition, categorizing cat photos or scouring digital satellite imagery for military equipment. Because all the chip suppliers are American, the U.S. controls access to the technology.

Some national security experts saw the U.S. move as a long time coming.

GPUs "have been totally uncontrolled to China and to Russia, so in a lot of ways I see this action as kind of catching up to where the controls probably should have been if we were really serious about trying to slow China’s AI growth," said Emily Kilcrease, a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security.

The U.S. Department of Commerce, which declined to comment on the specifics of whatever new rules it may be developing, appears to have targeted the effort narrowly.

The only products Nvidia said would be affected are its A100 and H100 chips. Those chips cost tens of thousands of dollars each, with full computers containing the chips costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Similarly, AMD said that only its most powerful MI250 chip - a version of which is being used at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, one of several U.S. supercomputing sites that supports nuclear weapons - is affected by the new requirement. Less powerful chips such as AMD's MI210 and below are not affected.

What the affected chips share is the ability to carry out calculations for artificial intelligence work quickly, at huge scale and with high precision. Less powerful AI chips can work quickly at lower levels of precision, which is sufficient for tagging photos of friends and where the cost of an occasional mistake is low - but are insufficient for designing fighter jets.

The only major market rival to AMD and Nvidia's chips is Intel's still-unreleased Ponte Vecchio chip, whose first customer is Argonne National Lab, another U.S. installation that supports nuclear
weapons.

"While we understand the U.S. Government is continuing to look at new restrictions, no new export control rules have been published and there are currently no changes to our business," Intel told Reuters in a statement. "We are closely monitoring the process."

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By now, this is no longer news, but feels more like political theater at times.

What the affected chips share is the ability to carry out calculations for artificial intelligence work quickly, at huge scale and with high precision. Less powerful AI chips can work quickly at lower levels of precision, which is sufficient for tagging photos of friends and where the cost of an occasional mistake is low - but are insufficient for designing fighter jets.

GPU for designing fighter jets? For CAD or rendering? Do they really need the start-of-the-art GPU to do that? Or maybe they're useful for flight simulator to train PLAAF's top-notch pilots to operate 6th gen advanced jet fighters? I'm at my wits' end. What's more notable is that the western media willingly participate in these kind of propaganda and lies.

Here is another piece on the latest GPU bans:

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The author does raise some doubts about the rationale and justification for these kinds of bans at the end:

What might once have seemed like a precisely targeted rifle shot approach to sanctioning China now looks like a shotgun blast.

A cynic might wonder when the US government will pressure New Zealand to curtail exports of dairy products so that Chinese youngsters don’t grow up to be big strong soldiers. The serious question is, how and when will China retaliate?

Apology for the non-technical rants, but once in a while people in this thread deserve some lighter news and laughter. All these litho/depsition/etching/cleaning are actually pretty boring, to be honest.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I guess that basically means than the logic circuitry and the switching gates can operate on a singular voltage source without external circuits. Packaging for extreme conditions will be easier, that good news for NEV and other applications.

I wonder how tough this new materials are to extreme radiation? Can this kind of logic circuits operate inside a nuclear reactor for example?
Radiation damage is related to working voltage levels. I am not an expert but it is intuitive that a 0.9 V core voltage IC with say 40 nm minimum feature size is much more sensitive to noise than a 24 V SiC voltage with 0.18 um minimum feature size.

I'd say that it is definitely possible to work in high temperature, radiation, etc. environments. This would also enable space science like ICs capable of continuous long term use in deep space outside the Earth magnetosphere.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Who cared about semiconductors in China during the 1980s and 1990s. Most of us were sweatshop slaves barely making end meets and before that subsistence peasants. We did not care or understand the outside world.
Maybe you don't care but I find history of the history of the semiconductor industry fascinating and the fact that despite the backwardness of China at that time they were able to make semiconductor devices and chips as early as 1956 makes their history even more fascinating.​
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Appix

Senior Member
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AF-1

Junior Member
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I think it should have been obvious for years, that relying on western technology to create something powerful, to rely technology/economic growth using western tech, is not possible anymore.
Who has ambitions to advance to leading levels, to compete with world top players, must posses its own tech, a complete supply chain...

Creating AI more advanced than western, using western tech to achieve that... come on, thats not reasonable thinking.
 
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