Chinese semiconductor industry

pmc said:

Nope. It no longer apply. once Russia put its competitive product. Middleast/India/Africa/Latin America/Europe and even Asia will be building products based on Russian tech. just increasing the size of Russian aviation industry (Aviation includes Inflight entertainment), will create more demand. AI and science minister from wealthy arab country. once you break apart Eurabia. money flows like water.

Click to expand...

But the problem is getting to a competitive product.
Look at how difficult it is for China to develop a full-stack DUV/EUV semiconductor equipment industry. How will Russia do better?

And why would companies want to use Russian tech when Chinese tech is already available which is more advanced and at a lower cost?
Plus there won't be the same reputational cost with using Chinese rather than Russian.
It's difficult even to make payments to Russian suppliers even if you wanted to buy something.

And if I look at the 2019 stats, the Russian airlines only comprise 3% of the global airliner fleet.
A similar situation occurs with almost all other industrial sectors with respect to Russia and China.

pmc said:

Middleast/India/Africa/Latin America/Europe and even Asia will be building products based on Russian tech.

Click to expand...

What tech? Russian tech? I hope you are not seriously saying that Russian tech is more competitive than Chinese tech...

Are you sure you are not trolling or what? The only thing that all these countries have in common is that they are all gobbling up Chinese goods and high tech products.

And guess what, Chinese high tech products are increasingly coming out with Chinese chips. Russia's IC demand is way too low for it to create its own IC ecosystem.

As I have said previously, and many Russian commentators admit themselves, for Russian chips its either China or nothing.

Russia is actually making pretty huge deals with the Saudis and the other Gulf nations to setup weapons factories in there.
They have been doing this for over a decade.

As for semiconductors. I just don't get it. The Emirates originally bought GlobalFoundries to build a semiconductor factory in the Middle East. But then nothing happened. Pushback?

AndrewS said:

But the problem is getting to a competitive product.
Look at how difficult it is for China to develop a full-stack DUV and then EUV semiconductor equipment industry. How will Russia do better?

And why would companies want to use Russian tech when Chinese tech is already available which is more advanced and at a lower cost?
Plus there won't be the same reputational cost with using Chinese rather than Russian.
It's difficult even to make payments to Russian suppliers even if you wanted to buy something.

And if I look at the 2019 stats, the Russian airlines only comprise 3% of the global airliner fleet.
A similar situation occurs with almost all other industrial sectors with respect to Russia and China.

Click to expand...

Russia airline carries 3% but they built 200 Sukhoi Superjets. and not only they but they can fly them to Middleast and Turkey. it is the willingness of acceptance at there airports after de-certification from West that make a difference.
Tel Aviv is also on the list.
i am sure they will buy Chinese if it meets there requirements. but Russia will have edge due to its military presence in the region that meet Arab interests. than there is other military operations in Africa that surely has extra funding behind.
bottom line is no region or country will like to depend on single source. Russia has own relations with India/Middleast/Africa/Latin America that has no bearings on what other product available.

Overbom said:

What tech? Russian tech? I hope you are not seriously saying that Russian tech is more competitive than Chinese tech...

Are you sure you are not trolling or what? The only thing that all these countries have in common is that they are all gobbling up Chinese goods and high tech products.

And guess what, Chinese high tech products are increasingly coming out with Chinese chips. Russia's IC demand is way too low for it to create its own IC ecosystem.

As I have said previously, and many Russian commentators admit themselves, for Russian chips its either China or nothing.

Click to expand...

commentators are not Russian government policy. Russia policy is to spend on semiconductor supply chain and they will have to share the result with many countries.

pmc said:

Russia airline carries 3% but they built 200 Sukhoi Superjets. and not only they but they can fly them to Middleast and Turkey. it is the willingness of acceptance at there airports after de-certification from West that make a difference.
Tel Aviv is also on the list.

Click to expand...

A total of 200 Sukhoi Superjets is nowhere near enough in terms of scale.
Prior to the Pandemic, both Boeing and Airbus were delivering around 500 single-aisle airliners every year.

I expect that is what COMAC is aiming for as well with the C919.

Lets not continue derailing the thread. Otherwise, the mods are gonna have to delete the last 10 pages by the time the argument ends lol.

pmc said:

Russia airline carries 3% but they built 200 Sukhoi Superjets. and not only they but they can fly them to Middleast and Turkey. it is the willingness of acceptance at there airports after de-certification from West that make a difference.
Tel Aviv is also on the list.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

i am sure they will buy Chinese if it meets there requirements. but Russia will have edge due to its military presence in the region that meet Arab interests. than there is other military operations in Africa that surely has extra funding behind.
bottom line is no region or country will like to depend on single source. Russia has own relations with India/Middleast/Africa/Latin America that has no bearings on what other product available.

Click to expand...

You really haven't got a clue what you are talking about here. I may not understand semiconductor all that much, but civil aviation is the field I have followed for many years. None of Russian airliner projects have a chance of succeeding outside of Russia now.

The adoption of superjet is what caused Interjet to go out of business. It will be a long time before any reputable airline outside of Russia and it's allies are willing to take a chance on another Russian airliner.

AndrewS said:

A total of 200 Sukhoi Superjets is nowhere near enough in terms of scale.
Prior to the Pandemic, both Boeing and Airbus were delivering around 500 single-aisle airliners every year.

I expect that is what COMAC is aiming for as well with the C919.

Click to expand...

I mean Russian didnot care about market size when they made 200 Superjet in past. and they surely not care when they make 1000 more Civilian jets. so why you think they care about money in semiconductor field?. that contradict your original point of market size.

pmc said:

commentators are not Russian government policy. Russia policy is to spend on semiconductor supply chain and they will have to share the result with many countries.

Click to expand...

1. China has a huge civilian electronics sector with a large educated population to support it. This civilian sector consumes large amounts of semiconductor chips as well as a military sector that consumes far fewer chips, but is still a large absolute amount of demand. Thus China requires a large semiconductor sector in all aspects (power, analog/mixed signal, leading edge digital logic, memory, equipment, chemicals), has sufficient demand to fund one, and has sufficient expertise.

2. Russia has no civilian electronics sector with a small but educated population. But it does have a military sector that consumes far fewer chips, but is still a large absolute amount of demand. Thus Russia requires a small semiconductor sector in limited sectors (power, analog/mixed signal, maybe some equipment and chemicals), has only sufficient demand and expertise to handle these limited sectors, and buys the rest.

3. Middle East has no civilian electronics or military electronics sector. They import finished products, not components, which semiconductor chips are. They do not require a semiconductor sector whether domestic or imported, as they do not have the capability to consume their own supply. In terms of finished civilian products, China is king.