Chinese semiconductor industry

s002wjh said:

technology need talents, US attract alot foreign talent each year , case point most forum member here live oversea or in US. whether US or china gonna succeed or not, it will depend on funding and talents. silicon valley is full of chinese/indian and other foreign engineers. Intel fab in ohio average salary is $135k, consider living cost in ohio, thats pretty good. given the chance many from taiwan/Skorea are willing move to US. especially if US lose its visa cap for talented individual, and pay $$$. intel fab, see how many are actually white american, ill bet most are from taiwan/china/india/SK etc etc. we are not talking about assemble iphone, we are talking about high pay white collar jobs, where US willing to attract them at any cost.

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That's assuming that the US economy stays strong and meritocratic. Unfortunately, these past few years have shown that the internal rot cannot be contained any longer. Without money and strong institutions, you will not attract talent and the talent you do acquire gets squandered by corruption and incompetent policies. America's current weakness begets more weakness and it will make it harder and harder to climb back up. Unless there is strong leadership and radical reforms, it's a fait accompli. The longer and harder America tries to hold onto power and push back on China instead of reforming itself first, the worse its decline will be.

Still, I wouldn't discount my country entirely and it may yet rise again 25-50 years in the future as it still has the ingredients for great power with a large population, natural resources, and a culture that fosters renegades and iconoclasts who could bring new ideas and revolutionary changes. However, I wouldn't bet on the possibility of a black swan event occurring that creates a paradigm shift in global trends. Such a hypothetical is a mental gymnastic whose possibility cannot be quantified. So based on the current environment, it is unlikely that the US will remain the preeminent power in the coming years.

s002wjh said:

technology need talents, US attract alot foreign talent each year , case point most forum member here live oversea or in US.

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Sampling bias: this is an English forum. The very fact that most of the Chinese here who live in the West identify with China will go towards supporting the following points:

s002wjh said:

whether US or china gonna succeed or not, it will depend on funding and talents. silicon valley is full of chinese/indian and other foreign engineers. Intel fab in ohio average salary is $135k, consider living cost in ohio, thats pretty good. given the chance many from taiwan/Skorea are willing move to US. especially if US lose its visa cap for talented individual, and pay $$$. intel fab, see how many are actually white american, ill bet most are from taiwan/china/india/SK etc etc. we are not talking about assemble iphone, we are talking about high pay white collar jobs, where US willing to attract them at any cost.

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You don't have to explain what talent is, and I know that a lot of talent in the US is Asian. That's precisely why America's going to lose that game with China. Nobody has more Chinese STEM talent than China and China's education is rising at the fastest rate in the world. America's appeal to Asians, and especially to the Chinese, wanes the more hostile it becomes. The more dangerous American streets are to Asians the better it is for China. Chinese money and its will to attract talent only rises as America's economic muscle falls in comparison. Basically, all of America's former advantages are in recession against China as China's advantage in sheer number of STEM personnel grows. Prior to the tech war, the US did not have the talent to become the top semiconductor producer in the world and it looks more grim for it the more China develops.

Shanghai Institute of Optics and Mechanics closed key breakthroughs during the epidemic to break through a number of "stuck neck" technologies​

According to WeChat news, the recent Shanghai epidemic has caused disruptions and blockages in the supply chains of various industries across the country. It also poses a considerable challenge to the smooth progress of major national scientific research projects.

However, during the lockdown period, scientific researchers still stick to their posts and achieve fruitful results. During the epidemic, key scientific research units such as the Shanghai Institute of Optics and Mechanics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences adopted closed-loop management and other methods to ensure the smooth operation of major tasks.

It is reported that during the epidemic, the Shanghai Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics of the Chinese Academy of Sciences continued to tackle key scientific research tasks, and recently completed a number of technological breakthroughs: completed the research and development of the edge glass for N41 neodymium glass, the core optical component of the national major special project, and realized the large-scale grating of the meter level. Breakthrough in aperture off-axis reflection exposure technology and new progress in rapid growth of large-size DKDP long seed crystals. Help domestic technology to further break through the "stuck neck" dilemma.

s002wjh said:

technology need talents, US attract alot foreign talent each year , case point most forum member here live oversea or in US. whether US or china gonna succeed or not, it will depend on funding and talents. silicon valley is full of chinese/indian and other foreign engineers. Intel fab in ohio average salary is $135k, consider living cost in ohio, thats pretty good. given the chance many from taiwan/Skorea are willing move to US. especially if US lose its visa cap for talented individual, and pay $$$. intel fab, see how many are actually white american, ill bet most are from taiwan/china/india/SK etc etc. we are not talking about assemble iphone, we are talking about high pay white collar jobs, where US willing to attract them at any cost.

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You are aware China has more STEM graduates than America by a factor of 3-4, yes?

dengyeye said:

You are aware China has more STEM graduates than America by a factor of 3-4, yes?

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inb4 the "quality" of STEM graduates in the US is better than China.

s002wjh said:

technology need talents, US attract alot foreign talent each year , case point most forum member here live oversea or in US. whether US or china gonna succeed or not, it will depend on funding and talents. silicon valley is full of chinese/indian and other foreign engineers. Intel fab in ohio average salary is $135k, consider living cost in ohio, thats pretty good. given the chance many from taiwan/Skorea are willing move to US. especially if US lose its visa cap for talented individual, and pay $$$. intel fab, see how many are actually white american, ill bet most are from taiwan/china/india/SK etc etc. we are not talking about assemble iphone, we are talking about high pay white collar jobs, where US willing to attract them at any cost.

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Coalescence said:

If this is the case, then the Taiwanese semiconductor industries should consider working with their Chinese counterparts in order to future proof their industry, putting their faith and investment onto their "allies" would see their trade secrets and personnel harvested in the future.

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They wouldn't mind increasing that cooperation if China were capable of providing all the categories of IC chip and semiconductor manufacturing equipment that US and US aligned countries (Netherlands, Japan etc), who I will call the US Alliance that the companies demand, or if Taiwan itself were able to manufacture such equipment itself. China presently cannot do that.

While SMIC is capable of using highly sophisticated equipment to produce the most sophisticated IC chips better than any other entity, it does not manufacture that equipment itself. As such, Taiwan has significant vulnerability.

Weaasel said:

They wouldn't mind increasing that cooperation if China were capable of providing all the categories of IC chip and semiconductor manufacturing equipment that US and US aligned countries (Netherlands, Japan etc), who I will call the US Alliance that the companies demand, or if Taiwan itself were able to manufacture such equipment itself. China presently cannot do that.

While SMIC is capable of using highly sophisticated equipment to produce the most sophisticated IC chips better than any other entity, it does not manufacture that equipment itself. As such, Taiwan has significant vulnerability.

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Yes, but for now the Taiwanese semiconductor industries could still cooperate with the research and development of those equipment within the mainland and their own, by figuring out what needs to be replaced and what it can be substituted with, to remove their vulnerability in the future.

In4ser said:

That's assuming that the US economy stays strong and meritocratic. Unfortunately, these past few years have shown that the internal rot cannot be contained any longer. Without money and strong institutions, you will not attract talent and the talent you do acquire gets squandered by corruption and incompetent policies. America's current weakness begets more weakness and it will make it harder and harder to climb back up. Unless there is strong leadership and radical reforms, it's a fait accompli. The longer and harder America tries to hold onto power and push back on China instead of reforming itself first, the worse its decline will be.

Still, I wouldn't discount my country entirely and it may yet rise again 25-50 years in the future as it still has the ingredients for great power with a large population, natural resources, and a culture that fosters renegades and iconoclasts who could bring new ideas and revolutionary changes. However, I wouldn't bet on the possibility of a black swan event occurring that creates a paradigm shift in global trends. Such a hypothetical is a mental gymnastic whose possibility cannot be quantified. So based on the current environment, it is unlikely that the US will remain the preeminent power in the coming years.

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As a Dark Angel, I take note of the presence of an agent of the Imperial Inquisition. Hmm...

China must continue to apply resources towards making major breakthroughs in improvement IC chip manufacturing capabilities and IC chip manufacturing equipment, regardless of what the nature of the state and society is and will be in the United States now and in the future...

Weaasel said:

As a Dark Angel, I take note of the presence of an agent of the Imperial Inquisition. Hmm...

China must continue to apply resources towards making major breakthroughs in improvement IC chip manufacturing capabilities and IC chip manufacturing equipment, regardless of what the nature of the state and society is and will be in the United States now and in the future...

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In the Emperor’s name, we shall cleanse Holy Terra from the heresy by Traitor Legions (i.e. Hanjians)…