Chinese Revolution of 1911

vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
solarz said:
Except in one very important distinction: he did not restart the dynastic succession.

I agree that for all intents and purposes, Mao Zedong was the "founding emperor" of the People's Republic of China. He was (is!) even worshiped as a deity by the common people.

However, the Communist Party was about more than Mao, as demonstrated by the swiftness with which it acted to crush the Gang of Four after Mao passed away. So you could say that Mao was the Founding Emperor, succeeded by the "Council Rule" of the CCP, and Deng was the Regent until such time as the Council Rule matured.
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Mao tried hard to hand his power to his sons. Unfortunately, his sons were all either killed or had main mental issues. He then tried to give his power to his nephew who unfortunately allied with the Gang of Four and was crushed by Deng. So if Mao got his way, China would be something like NK, which is pretty much a feudal society.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
vesicles said:
Mao tried hard to hand his power to his sons. Unfortunately, his sons were all either killed or had main mental issues. He then tried to give his power to his nephew who unfortunately allied with the Gang of Four and was crushed by Deng. So if Mao got his way, China would be something like NK, which is pretty much a feudal society.
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I have to question your interpretation of that.

Mao sent his son to the Korean War. While he didn't exactly expect his son to die, it would be inconceivable that a veteran of decades of military campaigns like Mao wouldn't know of the risks involved. If Mao was grooming his son to be his successor, why would he take that kind of risk? It's not as if he had sons to spare.

I've never heard of Mao's nephew, but the Gang of Four was crushed not by Deng, but by Hua Guofeng, who was Mao's chosen successor. So I don't see how Mao could have "tried to hand power to his nephew", when he had already designated a successor in Hua.
 
vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
solarz said:
Mao sent his son to the Korean War. While he didn't exactly expect his son to die, it would be inconceivable that a veteran of decades of military campaigns like Mao wouldn't know of the risks involved. If Mao was grooming his son to be his successor, why would he take that kind of risk? It's not as if he had sons to spare.
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Well, IMO, Mao knew that an un-experienced son of his would not be able to command respect from his hard-core followers, especially his military commanders. So he sent his son to Korea to "gain some front-line experience". His direct order was to attach his son to Peng Dehuai. He assumed his son would be safe since Peng would have to be protected. What he didn't know was that his son disobeyed direct orders from Peng and started a fire to cook meals, which gave their position to UN bombers. So Mao's initial intention was to let his son accompany Peng and "gain some war experience" without actually fighting on the battle field and come back and take over his power slowly. This tactic has been used by many an emperor in Chinese history.

solarz said:
I've never heard of Mao's nephew, but the Gang of Four was crushed not by Deng, but by Hua Guofeng, who was Mao's chosen successor. So I don't see how Mao could have "tried to hand power to his nephew", when he had already designated a successor in Hua.
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That was my mistake. It was actually Hua who crushed the Gang.

I don't remember Mao's nephew's name. However, Mao only appointed Hua after his realized that his nephew was with the Gang of 4. Initially, his nephew was basically acting as Mao's personal messenger with the outside. As yo can imagine, you have to have the utmost trust of Mao to have such position and that was thought to be the prelude of his nephew's eventual rise to power.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
vesicles said:
Well, IMO, Mao knew that an un-experienced son of his would not be able to command respect from his hard-core followers, especially his military commanders. So he sent his son to Korea to "gain some front-line experience". His direct order was to attach his son to Peng Dehuai. He assumed his son would be safe since Peng would have to be protected. What he didn't know was that his son disobeyed direct orders from Peng and started a fire to cook meals, which gave their position to UN bombers. So Mao's initial intention was to let his son accompany Peng and "gain some war experience" without actually fighting on the battle field and come back and take over his power slowly. This tactic has been used by many an emperor in Chinese history.
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The difference being, there weren't bombers during the emperors' times.

It doesn't really matter what the exact circumstances of Anying's death were. Yes, he was attached to Peng, but that did not mean there were no risks, as any veteran campaigners would know.

Going back to the original issue of succession, Mao Anying's death occurred in 1950. Mao reigned for 26 more years after that. Had he wanted to build a dynastic succession, he would have had ample time to father more children and groom them for the position. However, there is no evidence that Mao had any desire to do so.
 
A

antiterror13

Brigadier
vesicles said:
Well, IMO, Mao knew that an un-experienced son of his would not be able to command respect from his hard-core followers, especially his military commanders. So he sent his son to Korea to "gain some front-line experience". His direct order was to attach his son to Peng Dehuai. He assumed his son would be safe since Peng would have to be protected. What he didn't know was that his son disobeyed direct orders from Peng and started a fire to cook meals, which gave their position to UN bombers. So Mao's initial intention was to let his son accompany Peng and "gain some war experience" without actually fighting on the battle field and come back and take over his power slowly. This tactic has been used by many an emperor in Chinese history.



That was my mistake. It was actually Hua who crushed the Gang.

I don't remember Mao's nephew's name. However, Mao only appointed Hua after his realized that his nephew was with the Gang of 4. Initially, his nephew was basically acting as Mao's personal messenger with the outside. As yo can imagine, you have to have the utmost trust of Mao to have such position and that was thought to be the prelude of his nephew's eventual rise to power.
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Mao's nephew name is Mao Yuanxin
 
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