Chinese Revolution of 1911

RainMaker said:

If Sun Yat Sen had succeeded on the same scale and breath as George Washington, then yes I would agree with you. This is nowhere near the same case as Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. You are for sure TROLLING on that one. This TUNA will taste your feather.

Bill Clinton ruled over the strongest nation in the entire world. He was an elected leader through a majority vote. He brought the USA out of debt into the one of the largest surpluses in US history. He did this because he cut the balls off the USA military. He is responsible for THOUSANDS of US veteran DEATHS. Why is that??? It is because he cut their budget to hell! In any case we now know he is responsible for helping cause the worst real estate crash in all of US history. He removed banking limitations on sub-prime loans. He got caught screwing one staffer at the end of his term. Now that is not the worst part. The WORST part is that he got her a high level pentagon job in order to HIDE his affairs. That SHOULD have been the main issue.

In any case Sun Yat Sen DID NOT get elected by the majority of the Chinese people. He did not even have a quorum when he was elected by parliamentary procedures. He was not chosen by the northern Chinese in any way. His government was NOT internationally recognized as well as the northern government under Yuan Shikai. He did not even start the first rebellion, he was in London. In 1912 when the fighting erupted again he was in Denver, Colorado. He raced back only to assume the mantle of power. He HAD NO NATIONAL mandate. He claimed the Republic, but had a limited power base in the south. His Northern Expedition idea of military conquest was unpopular in light of his lack of governing experience. His administration was so weak that he requested aid from the Soviets and let in the dogs of class struggle. He left no legitimate mandate for Chiang Kai Shek to rule over Wang Jing Wei. In essence his rule was more about initial development, but he was no PRESIDENT of any real nation. Definitely not like Bill Clinton. He was more of a John Hansen, The FIRST US PRESIDENT. He may have been first, but by no means the best or historically significant, especially compared to George Washington.

You can bring up Emperors of the past all you want. So many of them did so much more while some of them did so much less. However ALL the Emperors actually RULED China with a political mandate or wielded NATIONAL authority. Sun Yat Sen NEVER had this kind of authority or mandate. In Fact the SOONG family is DISGUSTING!!! They RAPED China of her wealth. THEY STOLE MILLIONS of dollars. All the way to Taiwan the Soong family with the KMT continued to exploit the people. Worst of all they stole when China was weakest!!! During the war with Japan they made sure our soldiers were starving to death!!! All because of their GREED for foreign luxuries, the people STARVED!!! Did you see Madame Shek’s Manhattan home? Her family stole enough to keep themselves in luxury while mainland China suffered and languished in poverty.

What I am trying to prove is that HE COULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER! He should have DONE BETTER. Too many political leaders care more about their personal ambitions than the need of the people they were governing. Sun Yat Sen did not do as much as Chiang Kai Shek or Mao Ze Dong. But no matter how you look at it he NEVER ruled a united China so how can he be the FIRST president? In retrospect he might have done more if he SPENT less time gaining a reputation was a WHOREMONGER.

Kong Fu Tzu is another good point. Historically his wife is not mentioned much at all. He probably was a horrible husband and male chauvinist. He also hated his lazy son. But this might also show that he was so preoccupied with his students that he forsook his personal family and son. He did not shed one tear when his son died. Very common in great people, they can manage their professional lives better than their personal.

I brought up other topics because OTHERS mentioned it. I was merely responding to something I wanted to comment on. If you want to talk about the 1911 Revolution, we must highlight the fact that IT FAILED to bring China out of chaos until 1959. Since 1911 not one united government ruled all of mainland China, until 1959.

The question is why did it take so long??? Partly because the Soong family EMBEZELLED so much wealth. Also the FACT that the original KMT 1911 Revolutionary Government DOES NOT RULE mainland China today. The Communists trying to pick up Sun Yat Sen’s mandate are just plain FALSE. Clearly Chiang Kai Shek or Wang Jing Wei were more fitting to Sun’s change of power and KMT lineage. Sun Yat Sen understood that foreign influence was a major reason for China’s downfall and decrepit state. More importantly he did not agree with the Soviets that class struggle had to occur. This vital issue was a major contribution to the Chinese diaspora.

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challenge said:

Chinese intellectual tend to barrow certain idea from abroad, specially in the late 19th century,either democracy or socialism, and fuse it with Chinese "idea" or traditional value(authoritianism and fuedalism) ,result was tragedy.

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challenge said:

Chinese intellectual tend to barrow certain idea from abroad, specially in the late 19th century,either democracy or socialism, and fuse it with Chinese "idea" or traditional value(authoritianism and fuedalism) ,result was tragedy.

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vesicles said:

IMO, the communism in China is never the communism described by Marx or Lenin. Mao has always envisioned himself as an emperor and ruled China as one. In fact, he compared himself to some of the most famous emperors in Chinese history in one of his famous poems. The idea of communism was only used to fool the Chinese people to support him. In that sense, he was successful. In fact, if you look at the things he did after CCP took control, it's everything that most of the founding emperors in Chinese dynasties have done to consolidate power.

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challenge said:

Dr. Li Zhisui,personal physician to mao,accompany him to moscow in 1951,during the meeting with stalin in kremlin,stalin hand him paper to write down anything what he know about marx-leninist,few hour later mao hand over to stalin,according to him stalin "brew up" stalin personal order several professor from lenin instite
to teach mao about true meaning of communism.
according to Li Zhisui,mao knew absolutely nothing about commnism,he will cherry pick one or two to suit him.according to personal guard,mao keep small private library near his bed,most of book were chinese classic,not a single book about communism.after his death, most of library were clean out,and replace it with book written by marx,engel and lenin.
and mao late year, he become some sort of born again buddhist.although it was keep secret.

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