Chinese Revolution of 1911

ABC78

ABC78

Junior Member
October 2011 will be the 100 anniversary of the Chinese Revolution of 1911. A well known event in China not so well known outside of east Asia. We all know Sun Yat Sen was the primary leader to rise from the revolution. But here are some of the stories of other participants and supports of the 1911 Revolution and Sun Yat Sen.

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siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Something that people from both sides of the straits could celebrate. Sun Yatsen is one of those rare people who is praised across Asia.
 
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RainMaker

Just Hatched
Registered Member
I feel Sun YatSen is really a product of his times. Like Dr Martin Luther King, he is well documented as a womanizer. If he had only paid more attention to China than sleeping with Chinese women. Maybe he could have left China with a stronger centralized government. The fact that cancer took him too early does not erase the fact that he really failed in many aspects of founding a new republic. We may idolize him greatly, but he was definitely NO GEORGE WASHINGTON. He is more along the lines of John F. Kennedy. He was not a great President, but because he died early we make him greater than he was.

Kong Fu Tzu on the other hand is WAY MORE bad ass. His life long legacy is on the level of the historical Jesus Christ himself, which he predates. He reminds us that life is not about accolades and rewards, but the self satisfaction with being apart of a greater good. He died a failure to some. But like Jesus he stood up to corruption and lived a moral and ethical life. He DID NOT go whoring around in his pursuit of creating a better society.
 
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RainMaker

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Red___Sword said:
Well Hell-no there, so far the counter is you have posted 3 posts and I have read 2 of them, I have no idea were you trying to simply "leave some posts around" here so that you can hand in your acadmic assignment to your tutor another day; or, you are just trolling around?

I know (the existence of )these programs, which function like an "auto responder", only it "respond" to BBS posts. When certain keyword(s) filtered into the system, it would automatically pick some pre-set sentences
in its database and post it, constituting a somewhat "live" post of its own. - And you just reminded me of that.

Let me guess, current "hot" topic, what could possibly more hotter than "Sun Yat Sen" and "Three Gorges Dam"? - Sun being "sleeping women" and TGD being an "enviromental hazard"... Errrrrrrr Tasty!!!

Edit:

I am not sure "the Emperor is not amused" by the trolling to a some what "nobody" Chinese figure or not; but the trolling to another Dr. of which made a public holyday of uncle sam - got to be serious, right?
Click to expand...

Wow the “Bullies” of the block have come to mark their turf. However your prejudices and incorrect claims are proof of your clear ignorance on some issues. The first being whether or not Sun Yat Sen visited many whores in brothels around the world. The second is whether or not he was as great as he is idolized for, especially in relation to Kong Fu Tzu. The third being that I incorrectly made claims about the environmental hazards of the Three Gorges Damn. Fourth, I troll around the website without contributing. Fifth that I am a student who is so young I have a tutor and am trying to win academic brownie points. Finally, that I am trolling to another Dr of which uncle sam made a public holiday. You have clearly committed libel against me if ANY of these claims are incorrect.

Your pure elitism is so disgusting. Yes I am a NOBODY American. The lowest freaking scum of the country. I am the stupidest and most ignorant native of the nation. But I still presented FACTS. The first being that Sun Yat Sen visited so many prostitutes in brothels around the world, that his advisors had to curb his visits. How do we know this? It was because Christian organizations and western media were reporting of his rampant whoreing. It was clearly affecting his international image.

The main point I was trying to convey was that Sun Yat Sen could have achieved more for China IF he had concentrated LESS on building a REPUTATION as a whoremonger and more on unifying China by military force of arms. Kind of like Mao Ze Dong in his later years. This does not mean great leaders should be celibate. Just that they have great responsibilities and should balance their personal pleasures with the needs of the nation. Kind of like how Dr Martin Luther King Jr. did not let his womanizing get in the way of his reputation and accomplishments.

The second issue is more subjective. I claim that Sun Yat Sen did not achieve unification of China and form a centralized bureaucracy. His government did not collect revenue from every province in China. He did plant the seeds of the Republic. However the FACT remains he did not achieve the formation of a nation in his lifetime as did George Washington. Nor did he live to lead a unified nation. Genera Chiang Kai Shek did more to unify China than did Sun Yat Sen by mere military acts and longevity alone.

His place in history compared to Kong Fu Tzu is also another subjective matter that I openly concede. My statement, contention or claim was based upon my own personal opinion. It is not an absolutely valid and sound argument.

Finally, you think I was trying to be offensive to Dr Martin Luther King Jr. No I was not! I was making a comparison of political leaders who are both documented womanizers. Both men were married, but had extramarital relations with large numbers of women. J. Edgar Hoover absolutely hated Dr King and thought he was a subversive communist. So he had FBI agents trail Dr King and document his rampant extramarital affairs. Now Dr King was not as scandalous as Sun Yat Sen, because he did not visit brothels. However he was a minister of God and failed in his vow to hold to monogamy. He also took greater care to hide his vices than Sun Yat Sen. However like Sun Yat Sen, he did not fully achieve racial equality even to THIS VERY DAY! However he was instrumental in promoting the civil rights movement that has come so far today in America. Like Sun Yat Sen he is considered one of the major foundations of their perspective political movements. Now just because a political figure is so popular that a National holiday is made in honor of them does not mean anyone should hide the FACTS.

For example Cesar Chavez has a holiday in his honor. However it is clear that he betrayed the Filipinos by visiting the fascist dictator Ferdinand Marcos. The Filipinos clearly started the longest labor strike in US history. However Cesar Chavez gets the accolades and normalizes relations with enemies of their greatest ally. Philip Vera Cruz, Larry Itliong, Benjamin Gines and Pete Velasco are not honored even though they began the struggle that Cesar Chavez became famous for in Delano, California. The truth and the facts are more important than maintaining a fake manipulated icon.

Another example would be Teddy Roosevelt. Now he was a great US president who was a famous warrior and leader of the rough riders in Cuba against the Spanish empire. His gallant military leadership coupled with the mighty rough riders are the heroes of the Spanish American war and helped springboard Roosevelt into the White House. Well in FACT, the rough riders stormed the wrong hill. The famous Battle of San Juan Heights is INCORRECTLY credited to Roosevelt and the Rough Riders. In FACT, Buffalo Soldiers or African American soldiers won the battle. However just like the Chinese were erased from photos and records at Promontory Summit in Utah, so did the Buffalo Soldiers lose their place in history. And today we honor the rough riders and heroes of the Spanish American War.

Beyond political propaganda and censorship the FACTS speak for themselves. We should not hide the facts of history in order to glorify or inflate historical figures. All facts and data should be known and considered for their place in the annals of history. False propaganda and BS is not beneficial for humanity. Objective analysis of history demands that the facts are correct and not blurred by sycophants of popular icons.

Don't respond to off-topic remarks!
- TUP
 
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Red___Sword

Junior Member
RainMaker said:
Wow the “Bullies” of the block have come to mark their turf. However your prejudices and incorrect claims are proof of your clear ignorance on some issues. The first being whether or not Sun Yat Sen visited many whores in brothels around the world. The second is whether or not he was as great as he is idolized for, especially in relation to Kong Fu Tzu. The third being that I incorrectly made claims about the environmental hazards of the Three Gorges Damn. Fourth, I troll around the website without contributing. Fifth that I am a student who is so young I have a tutor and am trying to win academic brownie points. Finally, that I am trolling to another Dr of which uncle sam made a public holiday. You have clearly committed libel against me if ANY of these claims are incorrect.

Your pure elitism is so disgusting. Yes I am a NOBODY American. The lowest freaking scum of the country. I am the stupidest and most ignorant native of the nation. But I still presented FACTS. The first being that Sun Yat Sen visited so many prostitutes in brothels around the world, that his advisors had to curb his visits. How do we know this? It was because Christian organizations and western media were reporting of his rampant whoreing. It was clearly affecting his international image.

The main point I was trying to convey was that Sun Yat Sen could have achieved more for China IF he had concentrated LESS on building a REPUTATION as a whoremonger and more on unifying China by military force of arms. Kind of like Mao Ze Dong in his later years. This does not mean great leaders should be celibate. Just that they have great responsibilities and should balance their personal pleasures with the needs of the nation. Kind of like how Dr Martin Luther King Jr. did not let his womanizing get in the way of his reputation and accomplishments.

The second issue is more subjective. I claim that Sun Yat Sen did not achieve unification of China and form a centralized bureaucracy. His government did not collect revenue from every province in China. He did plant the seeds of the Republic. However the FACT remains he did not achieve the formation of a nation in his lifetime as did George Washington. Nor did he live to lead a unified nation. Genera Chiang Kai Shek did more to unify China than did Sun Yat Sen by mere military acts and longevity alone.

His place in history compared to Kong Fu Tzu is also another subjective matter that I openly concede. My statement, contention or claim was based upon my own personal opinion. It is not an absolutely valid and sound argument.

The third is that I incorrectly made claims about the environmental hazards of the Three Gorges Damn. Again LIKE YOU, I once was fed PROPAGANDA about the clean energy hydrodynamic electric power creates. It is NOW clear these damns slow down water flow and create more stagnant and less oxygenated water. Aerobic organisms hence die in mass. This decaying organic matter releases methane from the bacterial breakdown of the matter itself. Methane is worse than just Co2 as a Greenhouse gas. In fact, depending on the size of the damn, it can be worse than a coal burning power plant. It is biology and chemistry in action. All you have to do is THINK ABOUT IT! Now without questioning how the silt building up at the damn is having detrimental environmental effects beyond merely impeding water flow. It also contributes to destroying the habitable water quality. It also serves as a collection point for hazardous industrial wastes in the water table itself. The destruction of the archeological artifacts is clear. However coupled with the fact that the LARGEST damn in the world is the TGD, it is clear this is a major source of methane and hence creates more pollution in the form of Greenhouse gases than comparable coal burning power plants. It is similar to the myth about Natural Gas being so environmentally friendly. The scientific facts cannot be ignored. False propaganda is easily digested because people don’t understand the science behind the claims. I myself was once a victim of this as well. So what is so, “…Errrrrrrr Tasty!!!” about my claims?

Fourth, you claim that I troll around the web site not contributing. When in fact I made a contribution and you attack me for contributing. If you have a mandatory amount of posts then I cannot comply. I do have a busy life of my own.

Fifth, you think that I am a student that has a tutor whatever whatever something something… I am overjoyed and BLUSHING with thanks. I wish I were there again. Being that young and just learning the facts. More importantly I learned how to synthesize or process data. Something you seem to not be able to do concerning scientific environmental facts. Aerobic organisms simply cannot survive without their natural amount of oxygen in the water. The bacteria consume the matter giving off methane gas. Methane is worse than Co2 as a Greenhouse gas for the environment. I never needed a tutor to explain the simple biological process of decay and conversion of energy. I would be HONORED to tutor you if you like. I have not done it in a while, but am happy to try my best.

Finally, you think I was trying to be offensive to Dr Martin Luther King Jr. No I was not! I was making a comparison of political leaders who are both documented womanizers. Both men were married, but had extramarital relations with large numbers of women. J. Edgar Hoover absolutely hated Dr King and thought he was a subversive communist. So he had FBI agents trail Dr King and document his rampant extramarital affairs. Now Dr King was not as scandalous as Sun Yat Sen, because he did not visit brothels. However he was a minister of God and failed in his vow to hold to monogamy. He also took greater care to hide his vices than Sun Yat Sen. However like Sun Yat Sen, he did not fully achieve racial equality even to THIS VERY DAY! However he was instrumental in promoting the civil rights movement that has come so far today in America. Like Sun Yat Sen he is considered one of the major foundations of their perspective political movements. Now just because a political figure is so popular that a National holiday is made in honor of them does not mean anyone should hide the FACTS.

For example Cesar Chavez has a holiday in his honor. However it is clear that he betrayed the Filipinos by visiting the fascist dictator Ferdinand Marcos. The Filipinos clearly started the longest labor strike in US history. However Cesar Chavez gets the accolades and normalizes relations with enemies of their greatest ally. Philip Vera Cruz, Larry Itliong, Benjamin Gines and Pete Velasco are not honored even though they began the struggle that Cesar Chavez became famous for in Delano, California. The truth and the facts are more important than maintaining a fake manipulated icon.

Another example would be Teddy Roosevelt. Now he was a great US president who was a famous warrior and leader of the rough riders in Cuba against the Spanish empire. His gallant military leadership coupled with the mighty rough riders are the heroes of the Spanish American war and helped springboard Roosevelt into the White House. Well in FACT, the rough riders stormed the wrong hill. The famous Battle of San Juan Heights is INCORRECTLY credited to Roosevelt and the Rough Riders. In FACT, Buffalo Soldiers or African American soldiers won the battle. However just like the Chinese were erased from photos and records at Promontory Summit in Utah, so did the Buffalo Soldiers lose their place in history. And today we honor the rough riders and heroes of the Spanish American War.

Beyond political propaganda and censorship the FACTS speak for themselves. We should not hide the facts of history in order to glorify or inflate historical figures. All facts and data should be known and considered for their place in the annals of history. False propaganda and BS is not beneficial for humanity. Objective analysis of history demands that the facts are correct and not blurred by sycophants of popular icons.
Click to expand...

To Crossbow:

You can't "edit for this guy" this time now, I think he must break some record of this forum already.

I am not around long enough to compare the "weight" of this guy and that "legendary spamer" who loves to quote "robot technology" every time when he is in battle (from old forum archieve, remember?), but hey, "history" block, other mods not necessarily have potent knowledge to know about Chinese histroy, while you can.

Before more insults to whom the "both side" calls him 国父 "Nation's founding father" can be done by this guy, I would like to make one thing clear:

Sun visited a lot of brothels, indeed. But he did so to cover his "trace" and actually holding evolutionary meetings in these brothels. "A revolution leader spend most of his time at brothels is not THAT MUCH a threat, to the dynasty." - He WANTED the Qing govt to think like that.

He spend money to let ALL THE OTHER comrades to actually ENTER THE MEETING PLACE (which is the brothels), he has not much money nor energy left, for what man-women-interaction things.

You know, quoting a whole lot letters do not hide the BS of your words. You are still insulting many people around.
 
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RainMaker

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Red___Sword said:
To Crossbow:

You can't "edit for this guy" this time now, I think he must break some record of this forum already.

I am not around long enough to compare the "weight" of this guy and that "legendary spamer" who loves to quote "robot technology" every time when he is in battle (from old forum archieve, remember?), but hey, "history" block, other mods not necessarily have potent knowledge to know about Chinese histroy, while you can.

Before more insults to whom the "both side" calls him 国父 "Nation's founding father" can be done by this guy, I would like to make one thing clear:

Sun visited a lot of brothels, indeed. But he did so to cover his "trace" and actually holding evolutionary meetings in these brothels. "A revolution leader spend most of his time at brothels is not THAT MUCH a threat, to the dynasty." - He WANTED the Qing govt to think like that.

He spend money to let ALL THE OTHER comrades to actually ENTER THE MEETING PLACE (which is the brothels), he has not much money nor energy left, for what man-women-interaction things.

You know, quoting a whole lot letters do not hide the BS of your words. You are still insulting many people around.
Click to expand...

Look I don't know who your fantasy robot techie whatchmacallit somebody anybody was. But in HISTORY, the FACTS speak for themselves. Just like the FACT that NONE of my claims or contentions are FALSE. I have made clear, logical and sound arguments based upon the facts at hand. Just like I concede that Sun Yat Sen conducted many political meetings at the brothels. However you are mistaken that he did not CHEAT on his wives or had relations with prostitutes. Remember he had three and married his third without divorcing his first because of political concerns. He refused to make his third wife his concubine supposedly because of his Christian ideals. Despite those Christian ideals he conducted affairs in brothels around the world and you are telling me he didn't get any sexual satisfaction??? Chiang Kai Shek ALSO was infected with Syphilis from a brothel and gave it to his wife Jenny on their wedding night. These are HISTORICAL FACTS.

You can be the revisionist all you want, no human being is perfect. Heroes are human and have vices just like everyone else. To hide the truth is quite IMMORAL and unbecoming of ANY historian!

How is telling the FACTS of ANYTHING wrong? I am not trying in any way shape or form to insult the Chinese people, my ancestors. However the Chinese people were taught by Kong Fu Tzu to be a Jun Tzu and be honest. Kong Fu Tzu also taught that it is the inferior man that begins a meeting with conflict. So no matter what I say the TRUTH is most important to me. Just because I have Chinese blood DOES not mean I WILL EVER LIE about the FACTS in favor of China. The FACTS should speak for themselves.

You also have forgotten that you have TWICE now made PERSONAL and insulting attacks upon my character and social status. Your arrogance only highlighted your ignorance. Face it you were WRONG! Not to mention that you falsely claim that Sun Yat Sen the founder of the Republic of China and the KMT was IMPOTENT??? Then you make the claim that I am insulting many people around??? I speak of facts and TRUTH. History demands TRUTH and not propaganda and useless myth making. You insulted Sun Yat Sen and made the claim that he was too old and hence impotent to have sexual relations. That circular argument is supposed to prove that Sun could not PHYSICALLY sow his oats??? Man I think you just insulted Sun Yat Sen without any medical proof.

Sun also did not lead the revolution. He was in Denver, Colorado when he heard the Revolution had begun. He returned and could not get the support of the northern territories. In 1913 Yuan Shikai made sure Sun had to flee the mainland. So like I have said Sun really is more hype than founding father. He may have planted the seeds of the Republic, but he certainly NEVER ruled over a united China. Chiang as well never totally ruled all of China. It was not until Mao that mainland China was unified under one parliamentary government.

So far I have tried to stick to the facts at hand. You did not even try and apologize or concede that you were wrong about the hydrodynamic electric power pollution. In truth your elitism is very unbecoming considering you cannot back it up with your knowledge or lack thereof. Knowledge is power and cannot be taken away from you until neurological problems occur. Thank you for your time and patience.

If you live by the sword, you will die by the sword. If you pull it, you had better use it...
 
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