Chinese purchase of Su-35

Yes, let's calm down. Russians' goal is to further their own interests. If these interests clash with those of the Chinese, then conflict. If not, collaboration. It is unrealistic and unreasonable to ask the Russians to put Chinese interests before their own. Just the same that the Chinese focus on their own interests. This is all about geopolitical positioning. Let's not take it personally.

vesicles said:

Yes, let's calm down. Russians' goal is to further their own interests. If these interests clash with those of the Chinese, then conflict. If not, collaboration. It is unrealistic and unreasonable to ask the Russians to put Chinese interests before their own. Just the same that the Chinese focus on their own interests. This is all about geopolitical positioning. Let's not take it personally.

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No man, if you see clash of interest, then don't agree on something at the beginning then change track later on, trying to fool people. That's unethical.

russian game plan is very clear. Using SU35 and S400 to extract concessions from China for as long as possible. they are waiting for WS15 to come out. Once it sees WS15 able to supercruise and thrust vectoring, they will let SU35, S400 deal through. That time will be around 2018 to 2019. They only give you "junks" you don't really need.


They want to delay China at least another couple years.
Actually, they got alot of concessions from China already since the economic embargo by the west.

tidalwave said:

russian game plan is very clear. Using SU35 and S400 to extract concessions from China for as long as possible. they are waiting for WS15 to come out. Once it sees WS15 able to supercruise and thrust vectoring, they will let SU35, S400 deal through. That time will be around 2018 to 2019. They only give you "junks" you don't really need.


They want to delay China at least another couple years.
Actually, they got alot of concessions from China already since the economic embargo by the west.

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seems more likely that China is the one doing the stalling & delaying. if China desperately wanted Su-35, they would have order alot more than a measly 24 planes. what concessions are you referring to?

tidalwave said:

No man, if you see clash of interest, then don't agree on something at the beginning then change track later on, trying to fool people. That's unethical.

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We don't know the whole story. For all we know, the Russians and the Chinese might be in this all together. I mean some kind of under the table agreement.

We never hear the Chinese complain about it. The Chinese should at least vehemently deny these deals. Ever heard the expression that "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me"? The Chinese are no fools. There is no way that the Chinese would be fooled this long into a scheme like this. Even amateurs like us smelt something fishy long ago. You actually believe that seasoned diplomats and politicians would have been fooled this long? I think you have seriously underestimated the intelligence and competence of the Chinese diplomats and politicians.

I think this is a game that both parties are playing. There is simply no way that any one side would be unilaterally fooled into a scheme this long. It would so humiliating and embarrassing if that happens.

It's a game played by both sides. As to what the actual game is, who knows.

vesicles said:

I think this is a game that both parties are playing. There is simply no way that any one side would be unilaterally fooled into a scheme this long. It would so humiliating and embarrassing if that happens.

It's a game played by both sides. As to what the actual game is, who knows.

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Get India to buy Su-35 of course

Actually just putting this idea out there. It is not that China needed Su-35, they have other fighters out there that can roughly match up with Su-35's capabilities. However, for political sense, I believe it would be a good way to renew China-Russia relationship, buying one hundred Su-35 is giving money to a friend in needs and if China can afford it, why not? Please I really do not believe that Chinese cannot get anything new from Su-35, they can still learn something that might be of great help with upgrading her aging fleet of J-11s.

rhino123 said:

Actually just putting this idea out there. It is not that China needed Su-35, they have other fighters out there that can roughly match up with Su-35's capabilities. However, for political sense, I believe it would be a good way to renew China-Russia relationship, buying one hundred Su-35 is giving money to a friend in needs and if China can afford it, why not? Please I really do not believe that Chinese cannot get anything new from Su-35, they can still learn something that might be of great help with upgrading her aging fleet of J-11s.

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First of all, Russia is not a friend. They are a short-term asset and long-term headache. Simply giving them cash without getting something worth in return is beyond stupid. The Su-35, in its current form, is not worth. So either they changed it drastically to attract Chinese interest or the deal is entirely bullshit. This urge to "please" Russia or any foreign country because of a temporary realignment in power is a mental disease that needs eradication. China shouldn't have to set herself on fire to keep her allies warm, and Russia isn't even an ally.

Secondly, why on Earth would China need, of all countries, Russia's help with upgrading airframes? Russian standards of manufacture, maintenance, customer service, and all-round quality are incompatible with PLAAF requirements. Everything the PLAAF is doing for their Russian equipment is not what Russia is doing for their own equipment. Russia leaves their fighters out in the open, which is fine for them because their climate is dry as a bone but do that in tropical Fujian and you'll find Chinese Su-30s start achieving IAF-levels of attrition. Russian AL-31F maintenance procedures were so old-fashioned that when the PLAAF constructed their own overhaul facility, AL-31F lifespan went beyond original specifications. Additionally, Su-27SK FCS was so troublesome that China cracked it and integrated their own upgrades to support indigenous ordnance. So unless they're going to install super-duper technology into the old J-11 airframes for a bargain price, they have nothing to offer China.

hlcc said:

seems more likely that China is the one doing the stalling & delaying. if China desperately wanted Su-35, they would have order alot more than a measly 24 planes. what concessions are you referring to?

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commercial loans, oil & gas deals