Chinese purchase of Su-35

Verum

Junior Member
It's no brainer that China won't buy SU35 for the purpose of mass fielding them, but rather using them to acquire Russian technologies. Speaking of which, what's left for China to get from the Ruskis? Chinese radars and avionics advanced a lot, the Russian industry on the other hand pretty much stagnated. What's left in the vodka barrel for the Chinese to grab?
 

b787

Captain
the Russian industry on the other hand pretty much stagnated. What's left in the vodka barrel for the Chinese to grab?

not stagnated

The K-77M air-to-air missile with this advanced guidance system will be fitted on to the fifth-generation fighter jet PAK-FA (advanced frontline aircraft system, also codenamed T-50) and it will start to be delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2017.

The major innovation of the K-77M air-to-air missile is its guidance system, based on an active phased array antenna (APAA) of its own, Izvestia daily reports. With APAA onboard, the missile has zero reaction time to unexpected evolutions of the target, which means that once it locks on an aircraft, it would hit it no matter what aerial acrobatics the target would perform to shake off the inbound killer missile.
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Su-35 is not the best Russian technology, neither in engines, radars or technology


We have developed a Zhuk-AE version
featuring an increased-diameter 688-mm
AESA – the FGA-35 – for use on
production-standard fighters. The number
of the AESA’s T-R modules has grown by
almost 50% to more than a thousand. The
radar’s performance improved considerably
with an insignificant weight increase.

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Companies in United Engine Corporation is developing so-called "engine of the second stage" for the Sukhoi PAK FA (PAK FA), informs "Interfax" referring to the director general of the corporation Vladislav Masalova.

"Work on the creation of the engine of the second stage are conducted so as to ensure that in 2017 the first flight of the PAK FA with the engines of the second stage of the initial resource", - said V. Masalov. He noted that the engines of the second stage, which will replace the engines "Article 117", which is now equipped with a fifth-generation fighter will provide supersonic cruise flight.

"The main parameters of the engine of the second stage will be 15-18% more efficient than the characteristics of the engine used today", - said V. Masalov. Designing the power plant for the project PAK FA is carried out in two stages. On the first machine was "the product 117» ─ turbojet engine AL-41F1, related power plant AL-41F1S for the Su-35S ("the product 117C").

The engine of the second stage, also known as "article 30" (previously it is also called in the press "article 129", it later became clear that under these codes takes only a fraction of the power plant) at the momentrazrabatyvaetsya. The power plant will be different from the AL-41F1 improved fuel efficiency and lower life cycle costs, the newspaper writes

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A Bar Brother

Junior Member
It's no brainer that China won't buy SU35 for the purpose of mass fielding them, but rather using them to acquire Russian technologies. Speaking of which, what's left for China to get from the Ruskis? Chinese radars and avionics advanced a lot, the Russian industry on the other hand pretty much stagnated. What's left in the vodka barrel for the Chinese to grab?

I don't know what technology the Chinese want from the Su-35. The PESA? The engine? The sensor fusion technologies? The Russians will manufacture all 24, so there won't be any ToT. The best the Chinese can do is take the jet apart for relatively old technologies.

If the Chinese really plan to use Su-35 technologies on the J-20, it will be a pointless exercise. The Russians say the 117S is very hard to reverse engineer, so any such attempt will take a long time to materialize. If the numbers are restricted to 24, then there is no point in fielding such a small number of jets operationally.

I understand why the Chinese members question the Su-35 sale. I have the same opinion. Of course, if the Chinese plan to replace their old Su-27SK with a 100 or more Su-35s, that would make more sense.
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
why would China want to replace old SU-27SK with SU-35? J-11B/C would make more sense to me ... all Chinese made and designed

Yeah. That's why the Su-35 for China doesn't make sense, both in terms of RE and in terms of operational usefulness.

Maybe Russia is pressuring the Chinese to buy some so it becomes more marketable to other countries.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
Could China have the Su-35s configured to simulate most likely adversaries it would fight in the air against? You know, like the Su-30MKi, or F-15E Strike Eagles, or Rafales? Then it would make sense to buy them and establish "Aggressor Squadrons".
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Could China have the Su-35s configured to simulate most likely adversaries it would fight in the air against? You know, like the Su-30MKi, or F-15E Strike Eagles, or Rafales? Then it would make sense to buy them and establish "Aggressor Squadrons".

The most experienced pilots fly the less advanced aircraft for aggressor training. The aircraft is less advanced because the pilots have more experience, so the jet is older.

You don't need the Su-35 for that. You need Su-27SK and J-11A because that's where the best Chinese Flanker pilots are.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Just an observation and I'm considering right now to close this tread at least for a while until there is some new information, but we are nearly as far away from the topic's theme "Chinese purchase of Su-35" ... it became very much a debate on what source is fine and what not, technical details and their respective sources and not so much the Chinese issue in that possible purchase !?

If indeed only a Su-35 tread, then please continue in the special tread (https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/russian-flanker-and-su-3x-thread-videos-pictures-news-views.t6909/)


Just an observation ....

Deino
 
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Red Moon

Junior Member
Yeah. That's why the Su-35 for China doesn't make sense, both in terms of RE and in terms of operational usefulness.

Maybe Russia is pressuring the Chinese to buy some so it becomes more marketable to other countries.

To me, buying this plane could make sense, at the right price. I don't think it is the radar or the engine. It's not about reverse engineering at all. Rather, if this issue is real, it is because China wishes to make choices regarding vectored thrust without having to develop this first.

Is vectored thrust worth the cost? The debate around the value of this has played out in inconclusively more than once on sinodefenceforum, for example. Maybe some hands on experience can sort out this issue. If China can buy 24 Su-35's, it will add 24 flankers++ to its arsenal, it will learn the state of Russian technology, and it will get to test out this particular technology without having to develop it first. If it also helps Russian industry, that's probably a plus.
 
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