Chinese new armed vehicle "SX-1" for paratrooper

hongkongpride what happened to your prc pride?

Whatever the shortcoming, it carries more, and is safer than motorcycle?

Three crew is just right for this role. Is German motorcycle infantry useless and stupid, too?

goldenpanda,

while the sx-1 does carry more people (3) than a motorcycle (1), it is a total waste of money and people.

As I said, one ROC infantryman with an M-16A2 rifle or one grenade could kill the whole crew of the sx-1 because of the total lack of armour.

German or British motorcycle RECON infantry operate with one man with a radio-so he can warn his comrades behind him-as I said, even if he is shot or killed-it is better than losing all three men in one go.

You're not looking at the different doctrine. SAS are SPECIAL OPS, that means they run around almost like guerillas. This SX-1 is for PARATROOPERS. They operate in the open against concentrated enemies, in a highly mobile fashion. You're not a one man crew trying to find a nuclear reactor to blow up. You need to make light contact with enemy to reveal information. They are TACTICAL RECON's not 007, ok?

One to drive, one to suppress, one to scout and command. Three is just right.

Ground clearance is just fine. As good as HUMVEE for the wheel size. The wheels are nice and balloony. We're not trying to drive over rocks. Never seen rocks in Taiwan.

Don't lecture me about SOFs Goldenpanda-

Do you know anyhting about Airborne Forces Doctrine?

Airborne Forces/paratroops are light infantry (as in light, light infantry that do not carry much equipment because of flight weight!) that do NOT operate against concentrated forces!!!! If you have ever heard of Operation Market Garden in 1944-you will realise that Airborne forces are NEVER dropped near CONCENTRATED enemy forces because they will be easily annihilated very, very, very quickly.

AND when does a one-man crew blow up nuclear reactors?

For James Bond's sake stop watching 007 movies and start watching documentaries and actually attend SOF info days and ask REAL questions. One man motorcycle teams are not 007 wannabes-they are highly dedicated recon specialists who scout out the enemy and report back to the theatre commander. If you think light contact with the enemy is vital to RECON then why don't you paint bright red stars on all of your vehicles and start screaming on the radio just to let them know you're there?

"If you can see it then you can kill it"-US Military Maxim
"Remain Hidden and the Enemy will not know you are there"-common sense

The point is, paratroopers need to HOLD GROUND, and fight conventional enemies.

special ops are like guerrillas, except wearing uniform. your one man crew bumping around on a bike is not going to SEE any concealed enemy, much less response to it.

Please don't refuse to see that.

All kinds of useful things to do with the vehicle. Supplies, heavy support, medivac (see those man size buckets?), and yes, reconnaissance. Think of an unarmored HUMVEE, but without the dead weight.

Goldenpanda,

Back to the topic of the SX-1.

I know the vehicle is useful and everything-but so is a jeep.
And a jeep at least has an aluminium body instead of being open like the SX-1

My point is this: Say you were a PLA paratrooper with two of your buddies doing recon around Taiwan in an SX-1 and I am a ROC Marine doing recon duty as well-feeling very annoyed because you guys have just attacked us out of the blue. I am holding a M-16A2 (standard issue for ROCMC troops) and I see you and your buddies driving around reconning. I see a big chance to get the three of you in one go so I crouch in the bush and fire my 30 rounds in three round bursts at your open SX-1.

I really don't think you and your buddies would survive because the 5.56 NATO rounds would rip through your buggy like a chainsaw through a plastic sheet.

See my point?

Time for the PLA to start getting an airdropped ARMOURED IFV

We DO have armored IFV, as you saw in Peace Mission 2005. But they're harder to transport and are not as versatile. You can only justify IFV for assault roles, not ferrying supplies or taking a peek over the hill.

Your scenario of ripping me up with M16... Most likely I'll pop up over a hill, just enough to expose my 12.7mm, blast you away through sandbags, run back to prepare the IFV assault.

hongkongpride said:

Goldenpanda,

Back to the topic of the SX-1.

I know the vehicle is useful and everything-but so is a jeep.
And a jeep at least has an aluminium body instead of being open like the SX-1

My point is this: Say you were a PLA paratrooper with two of your buddies doing recon around Taiwan in an SX-1 and I am a ROC Marine doing recon duty as well-feeling very annoyed because you guys have just attacked us out of the blue. I am holding a M-16A2 (standard issue for ROCMC troops) and I see you and your buddies driving around reconning. I see a big chance to get the three of you in one go so I crouch in the bush and fire my 30 rounds in three round bursts at your open SX-1.

I really don't think you and your buddies would survive because the 5.56 NATO rounds would rip through your buggy like a chainsaw through a plastic sheet.

See my point?

Time for the PLA to start getting an airdropped ARMOURED IFV

Click to expand...

the whole point of having FAV is for fast transport and surveilance. It is not meant to assault an enemy position with it. If you get spotted, the FAV is use to transport out the scout as fast as possible.

Do people think the machine gun can be turned to fire backwards?

I like the arrangement of this vehicle. You can easily stand six men in the buckets. They can hold on to the roll bars. The rear looks like a cargo compartment. That flat space on top isn't doing much good. Either put in seats and make a higher cargo bucket.

I like the medivac bucket. With some modification it can stack three high for six total!

Aluminum bodies are useless. Paratroopers do not need protection from rain! Open car is better visibility and faster mount/dismount. Low CG, low weight, wide apart wheels, very stable to drive!

Roll bars are strong enough. The structure is a cage so you don't need them thick like civilian vehicles.

*GROAN*:coffee:

Goldenpanda,

Nobody says the SX-1 is not useful or anything, it is QUITE useful for transport etc.-the only problem as I have been saying for around 3 posts is the issue of SURVIVABLIITY.

Because the SX-1 has plastic or non existent armor-the three paratroopers sitting in it can be shot-all in one go.

I was saying that one reconnaissance specialist in camoflague with a radio on a motorcycle could perform the recon much better than the SX-1 could-without such a high risk of detection-as the British and German armies having been doing for the last century in WWII through to now-as well as the SAS with minimal casualties. You can't go wrong with an SAS tried and tested method.

If the recon specialist is wounded by some stroke of fate, you can roll up in your mobile SX-1 and rescue him like an ambulance. But if you want to be a genius and conduct reconnaisance in the SX-1 (with 2-3 men)-you risk exposing yourself to the enemy because you are travelling in a noisy buggy, cannot ride cross country like a motorcycle when you are detected and become easy prey for the enemy soldiers hiding in bushes etc. etc. (refer to my Taiwan operational scenario)

And when you are detected, you will be roadkill for the ambush that you never saw coming (read: Iraq, Vietnam) because your SX-1 has comparable armor to a bum in a wheelie bin. Like Ahho said, "FAV is for fast transport and surveilance. It is not meant to assault an enemy position with it. If you get spotted, the FAV is use to transport out the scout as fast as possible".

Paratroopers do not need protection from rain, they need protection from soldiers hiding in bushes when they are in their SX-1.

So unless you don't mind losing three men in one go-do it the professional way and get the motorbike rider to radio ahead to warn your comrades of danger without getting seen.
I'm sure they will appreciate it instead of picking up what is left of you, your buddies and the what is left of the SX-1 off the road.