Chinese Naval Export: News, Views, Pics & Videos

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gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
para80 said:
Schroedingers submarine. Thailand now reported to pause procurement for an undetermined time over engine (and supposedly other) issues, preferring to buy a Chinese frigate instead. Defence minister says he hopes China finds another buyer for the hull already under construction.

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China needs to stop using Western (or Russian) components in weapons as much as possible. There is no good reason to use German diesels in submarines when China has its own diesels of similar power. And if the diesels are unreliable on that application, well, just fix them. China is right now the world's largest shipbuilder. It needs to have its own 100% native components chain in order to prevent Western sabotage of the shipbuilding industry.

Just look at what happened with Russian civilian shipbuilding. It is basically stalled because of lack of access to Western marine diesels and other ship components. If a tiny country like Finland can have naval diesels with Wartsila there is no good reason why China does not have its own champions as well.
 
Helius

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
China needs to stop using Western (or Russian) components in weapons as much as possible. There is no good reason to use German diesels in submarines when China has its own diesels of similar power. And if the diesels are unreliable on that application, well, just fix them. China is right now the world's largest shipbuilder. It needs to have its own 100% native components chain in order to prevent Western sabotage of the shipbuilding industry.

Just look at what happened with Russian civilian shipbuilding. It is basically stalled because of lack of access to Western marine diesels and other ship components. If a tiny country like Finland can have naval diesels with Wartsila there is no good reason why China does not have its own champions as well.
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The whole sub deal is just that the Thai seem pretty insistent on having German diesels, not that China can't deliver vis-a-vis domestic diesels.

The Chinese side obviously promised them they could build the subs for the Thai navy with German diesels, hence the deal. But ofc MTU turned around and went: "Nope, not selling our engines to the Chinese', which technically they wouldn't be, as they would be selling those engines to the Thai, with Chinese submarines attached.

So now MTU gets no business from either the Chinese or the Thai because the Chinese don't need German diesels, and the Thai don't need German diesels either if the Chinese can't use them to build submarines with.

It just seems to me the Thai are being stubborn for some reason even when their own navy isn't, and the Germans being stupidly stubborn for obvious reasons.
 
C

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Helius said:
The whole sub deal is just that the Thai seem pretty insistent on having German diesels, not that China can't deliver vis-a-vis domestic diesels.

The Chinese side obviously promised them they could build the subs for the Thai navy with German diesels, hence the deal. But ofc MTU turned around and went: "Nope, not selling our engines to the Chinese', which technically they wouldn't be, as they would be selling those engines to the Thai, with Chinese submarines attached.

So now MTU gets no business from either the Chinese or the Thai because the Chinese don't need German diesels, and the Thai don't need German diesels either if the Chinese can't use them to build submarines with.

It just seems to me the Thai are being stubborn for some reason even when their own navy isn't, and the Germans being stupidly stubborn for obvious reasons.
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My guess is the Thai govt decisionmakers for this project have an arrangement with the German companies so they would get a cut.
 
C

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
Helius said:
And now nobody gets any cut.

Of course, the Thai can always opt for German subs instead. Bigger cuts too considering how much it would cost.

Hm, La Fayette deja vu.
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My guess is the Navy wants more bang for that buck and the civilian counterparts want more cash going to their foreign bank accounts regardless of bang. Anyways, this is what happens when greedy corrupt third world bureaucrats overestimate their own leverage.
 
Helius

Helius

Senior Member
Registered Member
He said that Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin discussed the option this week in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping [...]
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Lol imagine sitting face-to-face with Xi at the BRI meet, as they did, and telling him about backing out of the sub deal, as they did, because of, what, "Our colleagues at procurement wouldn't be able to get kickbacks from the Germans if we went with your engines".
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
sheogorath said:
Apparently offering an alternative due to German sanctimoniusness is considered "cheating"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716136733262450982
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And they said that Chinese-made drones, particularly those made by the world’s leading drone manufacturer, Da Jiang Innovations, or DJI, were vastly superior and cheaper than the American- and French-made drones on DeSantis’ original approved list.
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One of the drones from that approved list started a fire in a Palm Beach County Sheriff deputy’s car, forcing the deputy to pull over and drag out the carpet and flaming object on the side of the road, a department colonel
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.
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As for Chinese quality, your police department would rather purchase SeeSeePee spy drones rather than American or French ones. Why is that?

And to use Chinese liberal induction logic: "if they can't even make a simple consumer drone that can't crash and burn, what does that say about the quality of their military gear? The Soviet Union dedicated a huge portion of their GDP to military goods only and their quality left a lot to be desired..."
 
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