Chinese military exports to other countries

Argentina advances in its relations with China to provide material of Defense. Both countries agree to an agreement for the production of armored vehicles


(defensa.com) Defense Minister Argentina, Agustín Rossi, chaired a meeting of cooperation between his country and China with the aim of boosting production related to the defense in the context of the strategic alliance between both topics countries and on the eve of the visit by president Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner in February. The meeting was held in the hall of the Libertador Building Belgrano, heading the Chinese delegation director of the Department of Trade and Foreign Military Affairs, Zhang Chunli.

The officials agreed to sign an agreement for the production of armored vehicles that will go to the Binational Peace Force "Southern Cross" in Beijing next month for the trade mission will lead the Argentine Head of State. The firm also agreed in the Asian country in a specific memorandum of agreement between the State Defence Production of the PRC and the Department of Science and Technology, Ministry of Defence Administration of Science, Technology and.

The meeting discussed the current status of the joint manufacture of a polar vessel, the acquisition of relocatable hospitals for emergencies and expansion of chemical plants in Rio Tercero, Córdoba, as well as the modernization of ocean patrol vessels OPV was also treated . Attended by the Secretary for Science, Technology and Defence Production, Santiago Rodríguez; Undersecretary for International Affairs, Roberto De Luise; Under Secretary of Defense Logistics Service, Lucia Kersul; EMCO operational commander, Ricardo Cundom; Deputy Chief of EMCO, Emilio Infante; and Assistant Chief of the Air Force, Rodolfo Centurion.




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Dolcevita said:

Hi Miragedriver,
Looks like Argentina may finally get some new Naval Assets, Any thoughts.

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he Argentine Ministry of Defense selected the naval industry of China as its partner in building ocean patrol vessels program (OPV, its acronym in English) for the Flota de Mar - such as platinum Squad is called.
The agreement between the parties will be part of the comprehensive document on military cooperation in the industrial and scientific and technological fields that will be signed next week in Beijing, during the official visit of two days (3:04) that President Cristina Kirchner will make the China - retribution to the rapid passage of Chinese President Xi Jinping in Buenos Aires in July last year.

The Argentine admirals set in five the number of deep-sea patrol your fleet needs, but the contract to be signed initially provides only three units. Trading around these ships going on for over a year, and intensified after the Buenos Aires government set aside the German option, which involved the construction in their country, four OPV-80 Fassmer units, already adopted by the Armed Chile and Colombia.

The hiring of German class was so sure that to date, the site of Fassmer GmbH & Co. KG (

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) includes the Argentine Navy as ship user, next to the Marine Chile and Colombia ...

On 7 January last, in the article "Argentine Armada try, for the 3rd time, get your ocean patrol vessels," the Naval Power said the Internet that the alternative represented by patrol ship type P-18N Chinese, 1,700 tons, won "strength in recent months," between Buenos Aires authorities.

Last Friday (23:01), a meeting of the Minister of Argentine defense, Agustín Rossi, with the head of the Department of Commerce Military Chinese government, Zhang Chunli, held in Buenos Aires province capital, sacramented partnerships to be enshrined in this new stage of Sino-Argentine bilateral relations.

Confusion - The official statement on the meeting, issued by the Argentine Ministry of Defense, created confusion by listing on the agenda of the meeting, the "modernization of OPV." As the Argentine Navy never got to have a POS, it was impossible to imagine the reform something that did not exist ...

The explanation only came this week when Defense officials Binder explained that they had tried to interest the Chinese in OPV-80 design modification, whose technical detailing the Argentine government acquired the Chilean shipyard Asmar, in 2012, for $ 3 million. Asians, however, rejected the idea, considering the manufacturing plans of the German model incompatible with their production methodology.

The Argentines themselves to be seduced by the idea of getting the patrol P-18N, after representatives of Wuchan yard, the Chinese city of Wuhan, presented two relevant arguments in favor of their boats, recently provided the Navy Nigeria.

The first of these claims was about an offer built-in financing conditions in the current overview of trade between Beijing and Buenos Aires, where the debts assumed by the Argentines will be partly settled through commodity supplies.

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Stealth - The second trump card played by the Asians to the negotiating table was strategic military character: the chance of the Argentine Navy get your first ship combat stealth - that is, with effective features of stealth - and thus climb a technological step.

According to the explanations of builders and Chinese military, thanks to construction techniques and material used in the manufacture of the ship, the radar signature of a P-18N will appear on the screens of any enemy as a vessel of 500 tons, and not a ship of 1,700 tons. The actual dimensions of the vessel can only be detected when the vessel is within walking distance.

Another decisive factor in the choice made by the Argentine was of course the price.

Although this item is not yet closed - depending on the equipment to the board Argentine vessels - the Chinese wave with a unit price for their patrol far below the $ 70 million each OPV-80 would cost.

Last year they delivered two P-18N Nigerians - accompanied by a Z-9 helicopter (Chinese copy of Dauphin navalisado) and spare - for $ 48.5 million each. And the government of Lagos still pay most of the order value with oil.

Flexibility - The P-18N model is a variant of the corvette fast door-missile type 056 Chinese, a very light ship (1,300 tons) whose speed (kept secret) can be estimated at around 30 knots.

The P-18N to be supplied to the Argentine is possibly different from the Nigerian Navy ship delivered in the same way that the Nigerian boat was different from the model P-18N only 1,450 tons in 2005, was the Pattani class, Navy Thailand.

For Argentines, the unfavorable side of these negotiations is that the Chinese resist enable Tandanor shipyard to build the P-18N model. For now, it is certain that at least the first two ships of that class will be built in Wuhan.

The Naval Power, the representative of a European shipbuilding industry estimated that the Chinese tend to build very large military ships and requiring numerous crews, which possibly reflects its low automation and wide availability of staff. He noted, for example, that China's Coast Guard has just incorporated a 10,000 tons area control ship ...

The P-18N measuring 95.5 m long, 80.6 m from the German OPV-80. The Chinese model requires 70 crew, while the OPV-80 can be operated with up to 30 officers and enlisted.

Other relevant data in the acquisition of the Chinese boat with regard to the flexibility of the manufacturer in the rigging. In Chinese Navy P-18N is equipped with a HPJ26 cannon, 76mm, and two modern HPJ14, 30mm, controlled by electro-optical sensor. But this can be changed.

The "Pattani" Thai was endowed with Western weapons: Oto Melara cannon 76/62 Super Rapid, two 20mm cannon of the South African Denel and two heavy machine guns US Ordnance M2HB .50 caliber.

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From everything I have read regarding both vessels the German OPV-80 is a superior vessel, especially designed for the very rough seas of the south Atlantic (see some YouTube video for comparison) Additionally the vessel is very well built and has a basic sonar system and only requires a crew of 30+/- of operate. The vessel can also be loaded with four modular containers that can be equipped for any mission, including a hospital ship. The P-18N is a modified type 056 corvette.

Both vessels are comparable in price the Nigerian paid 45 million US for two P-18N vessels and Argentina was negotiating a price of 120 million US for five vessels.


That’s 22.5 million for the P-18N and 24 million for the OPV-80


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Miragedriver said:

From everything I have read regarding both vessels the German OPV-80 is a superior vessel, especially designed for the very rough seas of the south Atlantic (see some YouTube video for comparison) Additionally the vessel is very well built and has a basic sonar system and only requires a crew of 30+/- of operate. The vessel can also be loaded with four modular containers that can be equipped for any mission, including a hospital ship. The P-18N is a modified type 056 corvette.

Both vessels are comparable in price the Nigerian paid 45 million US for two P-18N vessels and Argentina was negotiating a price of 120 million US for five vessels.


That’s 22.5 million for the P-18N and 24 million for the OPV-80


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I actually find the pricing part to be very surprising. Chinese naval vessels are typically much cheaper than Western options. If China did win here, I think that pricing would actually be a big part of it.

The bane of the Argentine navy are the RN SSNs.

If they went with a 056 variant, it would make the most sense for them to go with the latest 056 with VDS and maybe TAS as well.

Add in a full sized hanger, and that should give them a fairly robust and comprehensive ASW capability on an essentially expendable platform.

Considering the RN could reliably only deploy an SSN or two to Argentine waters in the event of a sudden outbreak of hostilities, 2+ P18s operating as a pack would pose a hard choice for any RN SSN commander since the P18s would hardly be worth engaging normally, and certain not at the risk of taking retaliatory attack back from the P18's buddies. But to leave them be would mean having to operate in waters where enemy assets with a comprehensive ASW capability are actively hunting for them.

I believe that if the Chinese bid was not competing on price, then it must have been competitive in terms of features and capabilities. In which case the 056's ASW variant would seem to hold the greatest attraction for the Argentine navy

The Chinese naval offer to supply to Argentina Navy and its effects on neighboring countries


(defensa.com) Dining IPOs of Chinese factory to Argentina Navy and candidatura- between pre selected- few Chinese companies with local partners to Brazilian SISGAAZ have significant consequences in the next naval options other countries such as Uruguay. The broad and ambitious defense agreements that Argentina (without resources or political reliability to acquire Western material) signed in China in a few days, incluirán- discarding selected pre Fassmer OPV-80 (for which design adapted Argentina and Chile paid Asmar three million dollars) - a Type 056 corvettes in version Oceanic Patrol (OPV), also offered to Uruguay, a country in which their chances increase significantly.

Chinese alternative, along with the Fassmer, the Lürssen and DCNS Gowind, was among the shortlisted by the Uruguayan Navy for possible acquisition, mainly on the strength of his helmet, though, like the rest, no watertight compartments. The IPOs of Chinese origin offered to Armed Argentina (already with a contract in the process of signature) and the Uruguayan would basically derived from Type 056 missile corvettes, in a series called N and already in use in Nigeria.

The type 056 and 056A are kind Corvettes ships 1300-1800 (1700 could be the Argentina option) tons standard displacement, 89-96 meters long, 4 draft and 2000-3500 nm of autonomy. The Chinese navy currently has 18 of these operational ships and at least 6 under construction as part of a program comprising of 30-40 units. This is the first Chinese warship with modular design, whose finishing options ranging from OPV to almost a light frigate.

Also, Bangladesh Navy recently bought 2 of these ships, with options to assemble additional units in local shipyards Khulna (KSY). 056 Corvettes Chinese Navy are propelled SEMT Pielstick engines 16PA6STC and armament consists mainly of guns and missiles. Regarding the artillery, carry a tube of 76 mm (variant of a Russian model of equal caliber), complementing the above with 4 missiles antinave SSMs And J-83 and ASW equipment. There have embarked aircraft (helicopters) given its size, weapons systems and tasks assigned.

Of the 056 Corvettes have derived a seriede Oceanic Patrol vessels greater displacement and differences in capabilities, given the mission of an IPO, capable of carrying helicopters. The first variant as OPV were the two P-15T units manufactured for the Navy of Thailand (HTMS 511 "Patani" and 512 Narathiwar). Displace approximately 1,500 tons, are 95.5 meters in length and are propelled by British Rushton 16RK270 engines, which provide a top speed of 25 knots. Autonomy would be about 3,500 nautical miles (15 knots).

These ships are so far the only westernized (by the buyer) with Oto Melara 76/62 known canyon, plus two automatic guns of 20 mm (Denel) and heavy machine guns US Ordnance M2HB .50 caliber. It also has built in Western electronic radar, fire control and communications. He turned to Radar Selex RAN 30X / I Multimode, control system of fire Rheinmetall, navigation radars Raytheon NSC-25 Combat System Atlas Elektronik COSYS Mk1, fire units TMX Oerlikon Contraves AG, Communication devices Rohde & Schwarz and Control Machine Raytheon Marine GmbH. They also come with an onboard Super Linx AW 300 helicopter.

Nigeria commissioned two of these ships with a displacement of 1,800 tonnes, the beginning of the Series "N", which is intended to standardize for export. One has already been dumped in China and the other shall be constructed of 50% in the comparator country. Sea trials unit and built culminated in November 2014. The length is 95.5 meters, equipped version with two engines MTU 20V4000 and a maximum speed of 21 knots. The estimated range for this series is 3,000 miles. China maintains basic weapons system: 76 mm cannon (NG-16-1) and two 30mm guns. It complements the above two 20mm cannons and possibly caliber machine guns 12.7 in NATO, which would be added in the African country. It has embarked helicopter Z-9 Chinese version of the AS-365.

As for the electronic combat, have remained those used in 056 Corvettes, ie SR64 air search radar and surface and TR47 fire control radar for the weapon system. The TR47 shooting radar is also called Type 347 and is considered an unauthorized Italian Selenia SPG 74 (also RTN 20X) version.

Argentina and Uruguay
The version offered in these parts is virtually the same as the nigeriana- there commodities- even partially paid with regard to possible changes in the original electronics and weaponry "made in China" allowed. From shuffled this possibility, part of the electronics and weapons should be integrated in the buying country, given the vetoes, restrictions and prior authorizations for existing export. It also offers various forms of motorized contemplated as an alternative to MTU Maintenance something delicate for Armed uncertain future resources. Although initially proposed set of two 20V 4000M diesel engines of the German manufacturer, the Uruguayan Navy suggested also have other options. Your standard weapons would be a major dual-purpose autocannon H / PJ26 76mm (the main munitions alone or occur especially in China) and two cannons H / PJ14 30mm.

Concerned the type of ASR and area, probably far the most modern 3D technologies, the continuation of also Chinese copy of Selenia RAN-10S / SPS - 774, currently the model 364 (or SR 64), developed by the Yangzhou Electronic Instruments Marine Research Institute, high-speed system rotation Band H, but not cutting edge.

These IPOs are equipped with a platform and a helicopter hangar of about 5 tons, offering, if the customer wants it, the helicopter Z-9 Chinese version of the EC-365, although the Uruguayan Naval Aviation has not the slightest interest in the model, which, subject to the maximum weight, could be supplanted - in a difficult ideal availability scenarios economically by Sikorsky 76, AW 169 or EC 155B1. However, both Uruguay and Argentina consultations were made to assess the extent of the landing and the supported weight. While these OPV not have systems for antisubmarine warfare, Argentines requirements demand it, so it is possible that ASW systems as optional (towed sonar, etc.) are presented. In the coming weeks is expected to depart Naval Uruguayan authorities to Brunei, where observe the Lurssen PV-80-locally called Class Darussalam and there equipped with a radar Therma Scanter 4100, (which in Amazonas Brazil has been somewhat problematic to maintain) - . This model Lurssen displaces 1,625 tons and are powered by two MTU 12V 1163 TB93 diesel and equipped, in this alternative, missile MBDA MM40 Exocet SSM and barrel 57 mm., And then continue trip to China and examine in situ P -18.

China offers Uruguay payable- at a fairly cheap options with commoditties partially Western- and even has negotiated using the national currencies of both countries as a standard. It is unknown if better prices, almost simultaneous transactions in Uruguay and Argentina for the same OPV occur, as a matter of industrial scale are handled. 3 OPV negotiates Uruguay, Argentina 3 option 5 (although a number ideal, very difficult hypothetical realization that effect) would be 4 to 9 for Argentina and Uruguay, though they had financial and human resources, both quite elusive.


Brazil
In Brazil, meanwhile, on issues related to the trade balance, price and speed of delivery have chosen to shipyards Hantong Guangzhou Shipbuilding and Shipping Co. Ltd. to build their new ship "Vital de Oliveira" hydro-oceanographic research, with 3,500 tons displacement, 78 meters long by 20 mouth and 4.8 meters deep, featuring five laboratories-3 dry and two húmedos-, including a remote underwater exploration vehicle capable of acting up to 4,000 meters deep .

Currently, for system administration from the Blue Amazon, intended to cover the Brazilian territorial sea, was shortlisted, along with Embraer Defesa & Segurança and Odebrecht Defesa e Tecnologia, only to Orbital paulista group associated with China Great Wall Industry Corporation and Shanghai Institute of Space Power Resources, displacing very important conglomerates like Andrade Gutierrez AG Defesa & Segurança; Ares Aerospace and Defense S / A; Aerospace Industry Avibras S / A; Engevix Systems Defesa e Tecnologia; OAS Defesa; Queiroz Galvão Defesa; Shelter Proteção e Consultoria em Segurança Ltda Maritime; Siem Offshore do Brasil S / A; and Sinergy Defesa e Segurança, which, however, would not have protested. At the same time the ST Kinetics of Singapore Technologies Engineering - the largest group of defense of Singapore, with 45% of Chinese-shareholders acquired in Brasilia Technicae Projetos e Serviços Ltda Automotivos specialist major maintenance and modernization of military vehicles, police, and rural road machinery, and majority owned by a subsidiary of Asian holding.

Returning to Uruguay, in addition to several trucks and Chinese administrative pickups present in the Armed Forces and Police, and various lines of patrolmen who have no result, it has worked pretty uniforms that origin also in private security is being used Norinco weapons progressively staff





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tphuang said:

I actually find the pricing part to be very surprising. Chinese naval vessels are typically much cheaper than Western options. If China did win here, I think that pricing would actually be a big part of it.

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Without knowing the exact contract details, who knows if the Nigerian pricing included some sort of maintenance package. We also don't know if the OPV-80 pricing was just the basic model without any of the optional modules.

For the Argentine deal, aside from pricing and financing incentives, it could also be the notion of not being subjected to potential Western restrictions (ie German withdrawal of parts and support if there is any Western embargo or sanction against Argentina) that may have swayed the Argentine decision to switch to the P-18N derivative. It will be interesting to see if these units have any ASW capability but I doubt it. If Argentina truly got 5 P-18N derivatives for $120 mil, that's way too low of a cost with all these extras like ASW, not unless the Chinese are subsidizing for political points. Not to mention, this may upset other existing customers (Bangladesh and Nigeria) where they feel they overpaid.

joshuatree said:

Without knowing the exact contract details, who knows if the Nigerian pricing included some sort of maintenance package. We also don't know if the OPV-80 pricing was just the basic model without any of the optional modules.

For the Argentine deal, aside from pricing and financing incentives, it could also be the notion of not being subjected to potential Western restrictions (ie German withdrawal of parts and support if there is any Western embargo or sanction against Argentina) that may have swayed the Argentine decision to switch to the P-18N derivative. It will be interesting to see if these units have any ASW capability but I doubt it. If Argentina truly got 5 P-18N derivatives for $120 mil, that's way too low of a cost with all these extras like ASW, not unless the Chinese are subsidizing for political points. Not to mention, this may upset other existing customers (Bangladesh and Nigeria) where they feel they overpaid.

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For what I have read in different publication (non-of which I would stake my life on) Navy is requesting that these units be equipped with a tower sonar system.

A little more on this deal. Sounds like there will be some modification to the version for Argentina.

Brazil concerned by the agreements affecting the defense industry result of rapprochement between Argentina and China


(Defensa.com) The rapprochement between Buenos Aires and Beijing is not viewed favorably by the Brazilian government and industry. According to the newspaper O Globo, Brazilian diplomats have criticized the 15 bilateral agreements between Argentina and China during the trip to the South American country's president, Cristina Kirchner, were closed in Beijing.

The concern especially reaches military items, as if by an Argentina side alienate a substantial portion of southern territory in favor of a possible Chinese space station, there are agreements armored VN-1, for example-that would result in a cancellation of the already slowed exports Guaraní for the Argentine Army. Similarly, agreements to sell in Argentina (and tentatively, in Uruguay) the P-18N patrol that would nullify any possibility for Brazilian projects or associated with Brazilian groups.

However, most irritation, according to the publication, would be an agreement of Chinese investment in power generation, industry, production of railway equipment and space research (though and Brazil held a joint satellite project of CBERS). Customs facilities would also be offered to Chinese contractors for the construction of two hydroelectric plants, which are evaluated with deep suspicion by Brazil.


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Miragedriver said:

Brazil concerned by the agreements affecting the defense industry result of rapprochement between Argentina and China

(Defensa.com) The rapprochement between Buenos Aires and Beijing is not viewed favorably by the Brazilian government and industry. According to the newspaper O Globo, Brazilian diplomats have criticized the 15 bilateral agreements between Argentina and China during the trip to the South American country's president, Cristina Kirchner, were closed in Beijing.

The concern especially reaches military items, as if by an Argentina side alienate a substantial portion of southern territory in favor of a possible Chinese space station, there are agreements armored VN-1, for example-that would result in a cancellation of the already slowed exports Guaraní for the Argentine Army. Similarly, agreements to sell in Argentina (and tentatively, in Uruguay) the P-18N patrol that would nullify any possibility for Brazilian projects or associated with Brazilian groups.

However, most irritation, according to the publication, would be an agreement of Chinese investment in power generation, industry, production of railway equipment and space research (though and Brazil held a joint satellite project of CBERS). Customs facilities would also be offered to Chinese contractors for the construction of two hydroelectric plants, which are evaluated with deep suspicion by Brazil.


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Click to expand...

Why would Brazil be concerned about these deals between China and Argentina?