Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Prerequisites (Part I) - Gas Turbines for Electric Power Generation


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Regarding the difference between Marine and Industrial Gas Turbines - very obvious factors like Weight, Cooling, Fuel used are the differences.

Industrial GTs are very heavy ( the Mitsubishi J class is 320 tons ) . The support infrastructure is also huge relative to Marine GTs.
These are also very obvious.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Regarding the difference between Marine and Industrial Gas Turbines - very obvious factors like Weight, Cooling, Fuel used are the differences.

Industrial GTs are very heavy ( the Mitsubishi J class is 320 tons ) . The support infrastructure is also huge relative to Marine GTs.
These are also very obvious.

It is not just another industrial gas turbine. Let me post again post this report here:
Liftoff for heavy-duty gas turbines
By Zhong Nan | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2017-02-15 21:08
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Breakthrough made for use in aircraft carriers
China has made major breakthroughs in the core design and manufacturing technology of heavy-duty gas turbines that can be installed in aircraft carriers, according to a research institute at Tsinghua University.



Liftoff for heavy-duty gas turbines
Workers prepare for the sailing a newly built bulk ship at a shipyard in Nanjing, Jiangsu province. Provided to china daily​

The domestically made CGT-60F, an F-class heavy-duty gas turbine, jointly manufactured by the Gas Turbine Research Center of Tsinghua University and a number of companies including Shanghai Electric Group Co Ltd and Dongfang Electric Corp, has passed high-temperature cooling experiment tests at the Beijing-based China Gas Turbine Research Establishment.
The heavy-duty gas turbine can tolerate temperatures of up to 1,400 C.
Jiang Hongde, one of the project leaders and a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said the test results, including the cooling effectiveness and temperature distribution, were all better than expected.
All of the components of this high-end gas turbine are made in China. The prototype was made by Shanghai Turbine Co Ltd, with full intellectual property rights.
China currently can only develop heavy-duty gas turbines based on Ukrainian technology, as Western countries, including the United States and France, do not allow their manufacturers to export such products to China due to national security issues.
Aviation Industry Corporation of China has adopted the Ukraine-made R0110 heavy-duty gas turbine with 110 megawatts of heating power. However, this type of gas turbine can only be applied in electric power generation and cannot be used in ships.
Dong Liwan, a shipbuilding professor at Shanghai Maritime University, said that the work to adapt it for naval use still has a long way to go.
He said whether steam or gas turbines are used in China’s first domestically manufactured aircraft carrier will depend on the nation’s development of high-efficiency gas turbines.
Breakthroughs on materials and technologies can build a solid foundation for domestically made heavy-duty gas turbines used in ships.
“We are eager to catch up with established rivals in the field in the US and Europe, so China will encourage crowd innovation, crowdfunding and other innovative business techniques to further support the Made in China 2025 strategy, especially in its mature and fast-growing sectors,” said Sun Fuquan, a researcher specializing in military-related products at the Chinese Academy of Science and Technology for Development.
Sun said China’s fast-growing 4G telecom networks and the Made in China 2025 strategy will lead to further improvements in high-end products, productivity and resource efficiency this year.

And Dongfang has stated this turbine will form the basis for an entire series of gas turbines.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
China is roughly 20 years behind the Gas Turbine technology. Better late than never.

The current F class breakthrough needs to be applied to various endeavors and ensure long reliability. A support infrastructure must be built up (consisting of network of skilled technicians, spare support, software solutions etc).

Merely engaging in the pursuit of improving classes (which is basically increasing inlet temperatures from 1400 C to 1600 C and therefore better fuel burn, lower NOx emissions and better efficiency) is not enough.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
The same turbine blade material for upcoming engines like WS-19 and WS-15 can be used for the marine turbine engines?

Or is it not economical?
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
China is roughly 20 years behind the Gas Turbine technology. Better late than never.

The current F class breakthrough needs to be applied to various endeavors and ensure long reliability. A support infrastructure must be built up (consisting of network of skilled technicians, spare support, software solutions etc).

Merely engaging in the pursuit of improving classes (which is basically increasing inlet temperatures from 1400 C to 1600 C and therefore better fuel burn, lower NOx emissions and better efficiency) is not enough.

Interesting, how did you get the "20 years behind" ?
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Interesting, how did you get the "20 years behind" ?
Simple. F class is a product of 1990s.
That, and I didn't include the experience, human resource and support infrastructure required for F classes that other manufacturers (GE and Mitsubishi) had.
20 years is not that bad. If anything, 20 years to the outside world is like 5-10 years in China. She is quick at catching up in most cases.
 

FangYuan

Junior Member
Registered Member
20 years? There are 195 countries in the world and more than 90% cannot produce turbine blades. Compared to the world, China is an advanced country in tuarbin technology that is not inferior.

Compared to US and EU. China will catch up to them in a very short time. Unless they can make a breakthrough in turbine technology, like jumping from a piston engine to a jet engine. But the probability is very low.
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
The top three Turbine /Power system manufacturers are - Harbin Electric, Shanghai Electric and Dongfang.

Shanghai electric has found a way to Gas Turbine resources through 40% stake in the Italian Ansaldo Energia and its GT business.

Harbin Electric is in a partnership with GE. But this partnership, obviously, doesn't include transfer of technology or critical resources. Rather it is merely a partnership that packs both of the companies products. GE produces GT while HE produces support infra, Steam turbines etc.

Dongfang seems to have made independent breakthroughs in manufacturing and running full load tests on its Gas Turbines. Do note that Dongfang has signed multiple MOUs and licenses from Mitsubishi Hitachi Power systems.


Siemens is in partnership with SPIC of China. I don't think it'll materialize into any products of independent property rights. But it shall help in creating resources.
 
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