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Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)
- Thread starter A.Man
- Start date
escobar
Brigadier
Global strike
Sounds like is continuing, which is important. It's the ideal tactical nuke for them to use against a Taiwan invasion because it's carried on submarines that will remain after their surface vessels get wiped out. Right now I believe the W76-2 from Ohio-classes is the only TNW they can use on a Taiwan beachhead or invasion fleet if no bases/carriers close enough remain operational for them to launch F-35s carrying B61s. Unless they can use strategic bombers taking off from Hawaii to attack the Taiwan strait area with W80-tipped ALCMs or something, but that would be harder.
We all know that China currently has a number of hypersonic glide vehicles/missiles (HGV), the most well known being DF-ZF.
However, why does it seem that China does not have any projects on hypersonic cruise missiles (HCM)s or its derivatives?
This is in light of the development and fielding of US's ARRW, X-51 and HAWC, Russia's Zircon, India's Brahmos II and HSTDV, etc. Meanwhile, China seems to be overly and overtly focused on HGVs only with their Dongfeng missiles (DF-ZF).
This does worry me that China could have been very well left behind in the HCM race (and the overall hypersonic weapons race).
(Besides, this should be a clear signal that China's annual defense spending of only 1.4-1.7% of the national GDP is CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH.)
However, why does it seem that China does not have any projects on hypersonic cruise missiles (HCM)s or its derivatives?
This is in light of the development and fielding of US's ARRW, X-51 and HAWC, Russia's Zircon, India's Brahmos II and HSTDV, etc. Meanwhile, China seems to be overly and overtly focused on HGVs only with their Dongfeng missiles (DF-ZF).
This does worry me that China could have been very well left behind in the HCM race (and the overall hypersonic weapons race).
(Besides, this should be a clear signal that China's annual defense spending of only 1.4-1.7% of the national GDP is CLEARLY NOT ENOUGH.)
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The problem is that it is a long range rocket not a HCM.
China flew several hypersonic vehicles since 2007. The only revealed HGV is DF-ZF. There are many other types. Some of those other types are air breathing vehicles. If you follow this thread and the Chinese ballistic missile thread from roughly 2012 (I know tall ask but) all the info, reveals, hints, and statements etc are there. China has scramjet powered hypersonic "vehicles". There isn't much info on how those "vehicles" are used.
Out of just two Chinese HCM revealed (with photos) there was the recent Tsinghua University hypersonic engine test. There is also the DF-100's scramjet. DF-100 is considered a HCM because any hypersonic weapon that is air breathing is considered HCM. The similarities to cruise missiles of the conventional sense are not all there.
It's possible to combine HGV with HCM so you have an air breathing glide vehicle. I suspect China tested this in 2021 with its endoatmospheric global flight. It was the longest hypersonic flight, within the atmosphere, in human history. A glide vehicle does not have that sort of range to sustain an average speed of mach 18 (forget what it was but it was basically close to mach 20) throughout the flight.
HAWC is sort of like Zircon in that it is a scramjet (or some other similar engine) powered HCM but is not a waverider (as far as we know). ARRW is like DF-ZF in that it is a pure waverider. The Americans also have air breathing (propelled) HCM projects but according to their statements and hints, China has long since completed this - propelled wave rider with at least the around the earth flight back in 2021.
India is roughly at the stage where Russia, China, and US were back in the 1980s at most. Some very rudimentary and basic scramjet and testing it. Barely getting just the scramjet on the ground in lab environment to work over 20 seconds. This level would have been achieved decades ago by the other three. China has some exotic engines and combined cycle engines. Russia and US are quite a lot more silent on their engines in comparison but the Chinese say the Russians have working scramjets (as in serviceable unlike Indian experiments) and the US is the most well funded and the traditional engine specialist lol. So it's hard to believe the US would be far behind if at all.
India still does not have any hypersonic wind tunnels. They have plans for one but anyone can have plans for whatever. It also has no real supercomputing to crunch numbers like the others do. Their funding level is many orders of magnitude lower and more of their top talents go to Europe and USA to work on western programs. India also arrived to the hypersonic game considerably later. Its recent efforts are really much more showiness and brag than substance. The "test flights" are basically boosting some random piece of metal and then recording results. Flights may well be observed by all space powers with good enough sensors and OTH radars or even ships sailing in Indian Ocean (since that's the direction they fire their tests in). None have really considered their "tests" as real progress. You do need hundreds of top level talents, decades of R&D, the best supercomputers, and many hypersonic wind tunnels to just get this stuff even to prototyping level. The Indians are at the "make noise and bhakts will feel good" level.
While DF-100 went into service at 2019 at the latest, it was shrouded in greater degree of secrecy compared to the Xiamen university HGV dual waverider test or the Tsinghua University's recent engine test. I reckon the DF-100 uses an older Chinese scramjet tech but reliable enough to work for considerably impressive time ie many minutes at the least. While Tsinghua University's test is some new type of engine.
China also announced several combined cycle engine programs and vehicles associated with those programs. They've even been test flown (details in the thread or if you know Chinese you should be able to search up details easily enough). They've been tracked by the US and possibly others (e.g. Japan, Taiwan). As for the mysterious "FOBS weapon", that vehicle made an around the world flight, powered and flew for over 2 hours iirc. China itself admits it has programs for SSTO (aerospace engineering grail that none are even close to) and various exotic aerospace vehicles that make use of new forms of propulsion. One such is what China calls "sodramjet" and others are various combined cycles. Russia doesn't seem to have the funding and focus for these sorts of programs anymore. No one else apart from the US are attempting them either.
India? Well about 70% of its population is still below what would be considered poverty (living below $3 per day) and looking at their education metrics, they really have much, much more pressing concerns than the absolute leading edge of aerospace technologies. They have programs for them to appease bhakts and make it seem like they are getting places but all the other observers understand they are nowhere without at least supercomputers and hypersonic wind tunnels. This isn't stuff you can brute force via trial and error experimentation. The time it would take for them to get there would be monumentally greater than the other teams.
India is still trying to get a simple scramjet to work for longer than minutes just on the ground. They are far from glide vehicle and even further from combining glide vehicle with propulsion.
Also it seems scramjets themselves are not enough. Older scramjet tech is clearly enough for China to use for DF-100 but the more recent Chinese hypersonic engines have been officially disclosed as being different to conventional scramjet types. China also hinted at other means of assisting hypersonic flight that work similar in principle to supercavitation for a submerged object. IIRC it was some laser based system.
A metaphoric comparison of India's "level" at hypersonics...
Has nothing of substance but lots of false bravado and noisy claims and brags... "prototype" just to get investors onboard and really has no real tech and is just a combination of (mostly Chinese made and sourced) parts.
China also announced several combined cycle engine programs and vehicles associated with those programs. They've even been test flown (details in the thread or if you know Chinese you should be able to search up details easily enough). They've been tracked by the US and possibly others (e.g. Japan, Taiwan). As for the mysterious "FOBS weapon", that vehicle made an around the world flight, powered and flew for over 2 hours iirc. China itself admits it has programs for SSTO (aerospace engineering grail that none are even close to) and various exotic aerospace vehicles that make use of new forms of propulsion. One such is what China calls "sodramjet" and others are various combined cycles. Russia doesn't seem to have the funding and focus for these sorts of programs anymore. No one else apart from the US are attempting them either.
India? Well about 70% of its population is still below what would be considered poverty (living below $3 per day) and looking at their education metrics, they really have much, much more pressing concerns than the absolute leading edge of aerospace technologies. They have programs for them to appease bhakts and make it seem like they are getting places but all the other observers understand they are nowhere without at least supercomputers and hypersonic wind tunnels. This isn't stuff you can brute force via trial and error experimentation. The time it would take for them to get there would be monumentally greater than the other teams.
India is still trying to get a simple scramjet to work for longer than minutes just on the ground. They are far from glide vehicle and even further from combining glide vehicle with propulsion.
Also it seems scramjets themselves are not enough. Older scramjet tech is clearly enough for China to use for DF-100 but the more recent Chinese hypersonic engines have been officially disclosed as being different to conventional scramjet types. China also hinted at other means of assisting hypersonic flight that work similar in principle to supercavitation for a submerged object. IIRC it was some laser based system.
A metaphoric comparison of India's "level" at hypersonics...
Has nothing of substance but lots of false bravado and noisy claims and brags... "prototype" just to get investors onboard and really has no real tech and is just a combination of (mostly Chinese made and sourced) parts.
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That's what i like to hear. China must have Intercontinental HGV's armed with tactical nukes. That's a cold blooded message free people will understand with rather ease than talk.
Now it's time for HCMs in order to civilize yoga army.