Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

G

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The US is certainly behind Russia in hypersonic technology with systems like Avangard and Zircon. As for China they already have the DF-17 in service. They have ramjet powered cruise missiles. They have sufficiently advanced solid rocket technology, hypersonic wind tunnels, and supercomputers. I think it is only a matter of time until the systems show up. Heck even North Korea has managed to show a convincing boost glide warhead design even if it might not be operational yet.

The US military industrial complex just can't do anything fast or cheap anymore. They don't know how to do it anymore. All the "consolidation" with the mergers in the late 1980s and 1990s sapped their industry out of any creativity it had in the first place. They spend a lot of money on test articles like the X-51 but they can't develop any working systems without multi-billion contracts which might not even lead to a working product such is the nature of them. The contractors are always the same usual suspects. I mean, just look at how long Boeing is taking to put Starliner into service. A much simpler and well established space capsule design. All sorts of software guidance errors and delays. Pretty pathetic.
 
Last edited:
9dashline

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
The US military industrial complex just can't do anything fast or cheap anymore. They don't know how to do it anymore. All the "consolidation" with the mergers in the late 1980s and 1990s sapped their industry out of any creativity it had in the first place. They spend a lot of money on test articles like the X-51 but they can't develop any working systems without multi-billion contracts which might not even lead to a working product such is the nature of them. The contractors are always the same usual suspects. I mean, just look at how long Boeing is taking to put Starliner into service. A much simpler and well established space capsule design. All sorts of software guidance errors and delays. Pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...
Yeah cutting corners seems to be a trend... like with the 737 MAX fiasco, all started when Boeing wanted to outcompete the Airbus NEO but had to take shortcuts so they used basically the same 737 design that they kept more or less the same since the 1960s on their new MAX lineup but problem was each iteration the engines got more powerful and heavier finally it changed the center of gravity so much that the new MAX had tendency to pitch up too much, thus prone to stalling... so the fix for this, instead of redesigning the MAX with a new fuselage was to bandaid it with a computer subroutine that overrides the pilot input and forcibly pitches the nose down whenever it detected the aircraft at excessive AoA pitch etc... sounds good in theory except the program was only taking input from one AoA sensor instead of two or more, so whenever that single AoA sensor failed it could give the aircraft misleading pitch angle readings and this is what happened in both the fatal MAX crashes... plus it didn't help they paid Indian contractors $9/hr to write the code...

Then on top of all this, in order to save money for the airlines and streamline the pilot training/certification for the new MAX types Boeing neglected to include this information in the pilot manual, intentionally leaving out this critical tidbit about how the airplane can override the pilot in certain flight conditions and now to recover from a sitation of runaway/rogue autopilot etc... so no pilot had the chance to practice this in the simulator and in fact Southwest airlines (flying all 737) was pissed that Boeing didn't even tell them about it... so in the end Boeing lead the airlines to believe all they needed was a 50 minute iPad course/training for their pilots and sent them on their way
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Bltizo said:
I mean, there's no reason both cannot be true.

That said, I am not fully convinced that China's hypersonic weapons program is significantly more advanced than that of the US.
There are certain weapons and vehicular systems types that have yet to reach a stage of maturity that we know of to make that call.

After all, the US military has a history of describing close competitors as being ahead of them, simply due to the notion that anything less than all aspect generational superiority against their potential adversaries, is seen as the US falling behind in competitiveness.
Click to expand...
You have been saying for the last decade I clearly remember you said US hypersonic progra, is way advanced over china because they are designed for Mach 29 never mind it never reach that speed because thye broke the missile with success rate of les 50% because 2 out of 4 FAILED! Whereas China has succesffuly tested 3 out 4 hypersonic missile at mach 5 . But you inventing all kind of high fallutin theory to justify a socalled "American engineering supERIority over backward China We debate o enDd until I am exasperated. What I victory finnally, now China come with amch 20 hypersonic missile I AM GLAD IAM VINDICATED

See this is what China did right start small and keep incrementing over time instead come with the bolt flash from the sky Theys start slow with teactical glider and over decades keep increasing the range and speed as well as the maneuverability of the missile

I think the program was started more than a decades ago and the head is a fine lady with MBa program from Harvard. She was researching a low trajectory missile and we were wondering waht that might be Now a decade latter we get aan answer. She was promoted to the department manager and that is the need for MBa

China is in lead in this no if and but and that is due to what I called an ERA This is China engineering moment no where in the world but China has 30% of 8 million of university graduate with STEM degree STEM is still high regarded in China and Marriage prospect . In US graduate less than half a million STEM most of them are either Asian or Indian. No want to date geek in US
They want doctor, wallstreest brocker dentist, actor. So i would say lack of talent as long march said
 
Last edited:
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
You have been saying for the last decade I clearly remember you said US hypersonic progra, is way advanced over china because they are designed for Mach 29 never mind it never reach that speed because thye broke the missile with success rate of les 50% because 2 out of 4 FAILED! Whereas China has succesffuly tested 3 out 4 hypersonic missile at mach 5 . But you inventing all kind of high fallutin theory to justify a socalled "American engineering supERIority over backward China We debate o enDd until I am exasperated. What I victory finnally, now China come with amch 20 hypersonic missile I AM GLAD IAM VINDICATED

See this is what China did right start small and keep incrementing over time instead come with the bolt flash from the sky Theys start slow with teactical glider and over decades keep increasing the range and speed as well as the maneuverability of the missile

I think the program was started more than a decades ago and the head is a fine lady with MBa program from Harvard. She was researching a low trajectory missile and we were wondering waht that might be Now a decade latter we get aan answer. She was promoted to the department manager and that is the need for MBa

China is in lead in this no if and but and that is due to what I called an ERA This is China engineering moment no where in the world but China has 30% of 8 million of university graduate with STEM degree STEM is still high regarded in China and Marriage prospect . In US graduate less than half a million STEM most of them are either Asian or Indian. No want to date geek in US
They want doctor, wallstreest brocker dentist, actor. So i would say lack of talent as long march said
Click to expand...

I can't make heads or tail of what you are saying and I think you may have mistaken me with someone else in the past.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
STEM isn't looked down on at all in American society. There may be some anti-intellectualism aspect to American pop culture but the US state and elites have long been promoting STEM and creating all the "right" psychological encouragement even as far as to promote STEM pop culture efforts.

The real reason is because good times breed bad people. Good times with the generation now in their 40s to 60s and they've created an environment riddled with social decay. They allowed it and their children are f*cked. Well not everyone of course but such is the cycle of a society.

Good times breed entitled morons who all get too much reward for nothing. Every kid is a genius, "you can be the president one day" ... rather than "not unless you work your ass off and even then, I think you're a bit dumb". Most American kids these days dream about being a twitch streamer or instagram whore. It's a me, me, me culture and kids see how glorified ego masturbating people are but they miss out on the 99.99% losers of that rat race. STEM is hard. Any engineering degree is easily several time harder than a law degree. Hell even a dentistry degree is nothing compared to the easiest engineering career. I've met mix program students who cruise through health science classes and arts like nothing with 90% drinking and 10% reading... once they get into an engineering class it's 30% average grade... It's hard and kids don't like hard. They either need to be pushed or encouraged to think about it with the right attitude. Chinese attitudes aren't great either. It's too much carrot and stick routine sort of like the stupid "if you behave, Santa will reward you". Children are not dogs, they can understand the whats and whys if good parents can explain the lessons well enough over time. American parents are no better than Chinese ones, but at least the Chinese kids are told they're lazy and dumb if they are.

Why so few STEM kids in the US? Because you can use a few brain cells to cruise through literally any non-STEM field but STEM demands you to drop 5 to 10 hours of real work a day, 5 days a week for at least 4 years just to get a decent bachelors from a top university.

The average American kid doesn't even like doing the dishes. Ask that average American kid to spend 5 hours studying a maths problem and persisting until they achieve it and do that 1000 times. LOL good effing luck most of these kids can barely understand trig. Western kids have the luxury of not "needing" to do the hard stuff but more non-western kids have the right motivations because they don't always get what they want and don't flattered non-stop since birth.
 
W

weig2000

Captain
gelgoog said:
The US is certainly behind Russia in hypersonic technology with systems like Avangard and Zircon. As for China they already have the DF-17 in service. They have ramjet powered cruise missiles. They have sufficiently advanced solid rocket technology, hypersonic wind tunnels, and supercomputers. I think it is only a matter of time until the systems show up. Heck even North Korea has managed to show a convincing boost glide warhead design even if it might not be operational yet.
Click to expand...

Now Russia clearly is in the lead at least from the various deployed hypersonic missiles standpoint. The US is also very likely behind China in hypersonic technologies. This is not just reflected in the deployed missiles such as DF-17, but also in the breadth and depth of research and development in the field of hypersonic vehicles. The US was apparently shocked a few years ago from what had been disclosed in some conferences on hypersonic technologies held in China, and China's openness in the area.

In fact, China's hypersonic missile experiences are not just limited to DF-17. In many ways, ASBM can also be considered belonging to the broader category of hypersonic missiles, in terms of its flight characteristics and many technological challenges, such as maneuverability, targeting, heat-resisting materials, etc.

gelgoog said:
The US military industrial complex just can't do anything fast or cheap anymore. They don't know how to do it anymore. All the "consolidation" with the mergers in the late 1980s and 1990s sapped their industry out of any creativity it had in the first place. They spend a lot of money on test articles like the X-51 but they can't develop any working systems without multi-billion contracts which might not even lead to a working product such is the nature of them. The contractors are always the same usual suspects. I mean, just look at how long Boeing is taking to put Starliner into service. A much simpler and well established space capsule design. All sorts of software guidance errors and delays. Pretty pathetic.
Click to expand...

The US had realized some of their industrial and supplier base for hypersonic technologies were lost or atrophied due to chronic lack of investments. It's not just a matter of picking up where you left before.
 
Fedupwithlies

Fedupwithlies

Junior Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
STEM isn't looked down on at all in American society. There may be some anti-intellectualism aspect to American pop culture but the US state and elites have long been promoting STEM and creating all the "right" psychological encouragement even as far as to promote STEM pop culture efforts.

The real reason is because good times breed bad people. Good times with the generation now in their 40s to 60s and they've created an environment riddled with social decay. They allowed it and their children are f*cked. Well not everyone of course but such is the cycle of a society.

Good times breed entitled morons who all get too much reward for nothing. Every kid is a genius, "you can be the president one day" ... rather than "not unless you work your ass off and even then, I think you're a bit dumb". Most American kids these days dream about being a twitch streamer or instagram whore. It's a me, me, me culture and kids see how glorified ego masturbating people are but they miss out on the 99.99% losers of that rat race. STEM is hard. Any engineering degree is easily several time harder than a law degree. Hell even a dentistry degree is nothing compared to the easiest engineering career. I've met mix program students who cruise through health science classes and arts like nothing with 90% drinking and 10% reading... once they get into an engineering class it's 30% average grade... It's hard and kids don't like hard. They either need to be pushed or encouraged to think about it with the right attitude. Chinese attitudes aren't great either. It's too much carrot and stick routine sort of like the stupid "if you behave, Santa will reward you". Children are not dogs, they can understand the whats and whys if good parents can explain the lessons well enough over time. American parents are no better than Chinese ones, but at least the Chinese kids are told they're lazy and dumb if they are.

Why so few STEM kids in the US? Because you can use a few brain cells to cruise through literally any non-STEM field but STEM demands you to drop 5 to 10 hours of real work a day, 5 days a week for at least 4 years just to get a decent bachelors from a top university.

The average American kid doesn't even like doing the dishes. Ask that average American kid to spend 5 hours studying a maths problem and persisting until they achieve it and do that 1000 times. LOL good effing luck most of these kids can barely understand trig. Western kids have the luxury of not "needing" to do the hard stuff but more non-western kids have the right motivations because they don't always get what they want and don't flattered non-stop since birth.
Click to expand...

I agree.

A comment I made back in August, in fact:

Discussing Biden's Potential China Policy

According to Wikipedia, China sent 431 athletes to the Tokyo Olympics. https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E5%B9%B4%E5%A4%8F%E5%AD%A3%E5%A5%A5%E6%9E%97%E5%8C%B9%E5%85%8B%E8%BF%90%E5%8A%A8%E4%BC%9A%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%E4%BB%A3%E8%A1%A8%E5%9B%A2 For a moment I thought he must have included the...
www.sinodefenceforum.com

"From the article, "Americans have never shrunk from competition. Indeed, our market economy and democracy are founded on the proposition that fair competition will spur the rivals to run faster than they would do running alone."

That's hilarious. Americans these days are obsessed with trying to cheat while getting their competition disqualified so they don't have to compete.

Americans these days have the singular mentality of "if I don't win, its because everyone else was cheating."

They weren't always like that, I've met a lot of Americans who don't have that mentality. But almost %100 they were born in the 60's and 70's and grew up in the 70's and 80's.

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the cold war really did a number on their work ethic."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top