Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

An IISS report detailing long-range strike capabilities, including China, this time also included the DF-27:


They estimate the range of the DF-27 to be between 5,000 km and 8,000 km. Also, the range of the CJ-100 seems low, up to 2000 km, I thought the range was estimated at 5000 km.

Excerpt taken from the study:

The PLARF is also upgrading its arsenal by introducing new types of equipment, though little is currently known about them. The Pentagon’s 2023 report claims that the DF-27 (CH-SS-X-24) IRBM/HGV is under development; however, Pentagon documents leaked in early 2023 indicated that limited numbers may already have been fielded. The leaked documents also assessed that the DF-27 has land-attack and anti-ship variants, offering the prospect of a PLARF capability to target high-value units of the US Navy further away than the previously conceptualised battlespace west of Guam.

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Sinnavuuty said:

This seems like copium, but I'll post it anyway:

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According to Business Insider, the unsatisfactory performance of this weapon is not being viewed favorably by Chinese analysts, who look at the war in Ukraine as a testing ground for Western weapons.

In an analysis considered "surprising" by the publication, Yin Jie, a military expert at Ordnance Industry Science and Technology magazine, wrote a criticism of the Kinzhal in November, considering that they have “little chance of succeeding on the battlefield”.

Quoted by Business Insider, Yin described Kinzhal as a “short-term and rushed project” that was launched “by force” due to Western pressure.

Chinese concern about the lack of effectiveness of the Kinzhal has a basis, according to the magazine, as Beijing would hope to collect more positive data on the effectiveness of this weapon against Western defensive equipment, to be able to apply it to the development of its own line of missiles. hypersonics, the Dongfeng family.

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Kinzhal is not a true hypersonic missile though. It is more of an air launched ballistic missile and doesn’t have the maneuver capabilities of a hypersonic glide vehicle.

Sinnavuuty said:

This seems like copium, but I'll post it anyway:

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According to Business Insider, the unsatisfactory performance of this weapon is not being viewed favorably by Chinese analysts, who look at the war in Ukraine as a testing ground for Western weapons.

In an analysis considered "surprising" by the publication, Yin Jie, a military expert at Ordnance Industry Science and Technology magazine, wrote a criticism of the Kinzhal in November, considering that they have “little chance of succeeding on the battlefield”.

Quoted by Business Insider, Yin described Kinzhal as a “short-term and rushed project” that was launched “by force” due to Western pressure.

Chinese concern about the lack of effectiveness of the Kinzhal has a basis, according to the magazine, as Beijing would hope to collect more positive data on the effectiveness of this weapon against Western defensive equipment, to be able to apply it to the development of its own line of missiles. hypersonics, the Dongfeng family.

Click to expand...

That article is unironically better than what I expected. Particularly because they included the legitimate criticism of Russia by the Chinese. The Kinzhal is just another case of Russians deriving something from what they already had and hyping it as if it was a superweapon. I have no idea why they advertised it as unstoppable when the THAAD and PAC-3 have been intercepting faster test mules for years.

@siegecrossbow

Kinzhal is not a true hypersonic missile though. It is more of an air launched ballistic missile and doesn’t have the maneuver capabilities of a hypersonic glide vehicle.

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There are impressive things about the Kinzhal and Iskander like their depressed trajectory, decoys, the fact that it can maneuver at all stages of its flight, existence of multiple warhead options, some having terminal seekers, etc... It is a good missile as a SRBM. The problem starts when you advertise the air launched variant as an unstoppable hypersonic missile.

Sinnavuuty said:

This seems like copium, but I'll post it anyway:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

According to Business Insider, the unsatisfactory performance of this weapon is not being viewed favorably by Chinese analysts, who look at the war in Ukraine as a testing ground for Western weapons.

In an analysis considered "surprising" by the publication, Yin Jie, a military expert at Ordnance Industry Science and Technology magazine, wrote a criticism of the Kinzhal in November, considering that they have “little chance of succeeding on the battlefield”.

Quoted by Business Insider, Yin described Kinzhal as a “short-term and rushed project” that was launched “by force” due to Western pressure.

Chinese concern about the lack of effectiveness of the Kinzhal has a basis, according to the magazine, as Beijing would hope to collect more positive data on the effectiveness of this weapon against Western defensive equipment, to be able to apply it to the development of its own line of missiles. hypersonics, the Dongfeng family.

Click to expand...

I don't see it as a huge issue. assuming that western systems are effective against Kinzhal as claimed, then they might be slightly less effective against Chinese missiles which are a bit more sophisticated. the Chinese can mitigate any potential threat simply by building a larger quantity.

Except the Kinzhal is hypersonic. I don't care about US propaganda attempts to redefine what the word means i.e. something that travels over Mach 5. We also define bullets as supersonic and subsonic and they don't have wings or airbreathing engines either.
The US is just trying to paper over the fact they lack an equivalent weapon to the Kinzhal with its Newspeak nonsense.

Also the Russians do have operational hypersonic glide vehicles (Avangard) and hypersonic airbreathing cruise missiles (Zircon) as well.
The US has none of the three operational yet.

The Ukrainians claim they cannot intercept the Kh-32. Yet you think they can intercept the Kinzhal reliably? Yeah right.
We have videos showing the Kinzhal flying and striking ground targets in Ukraine. Yet there are no such videos showing interceptions.

Russia does not produce more Kinzhals because they don't have that many launch platforms for it to begin with.

As for duds, people mistaking a Kinzhal with an Iskander, or whatever, it might happen.

gelgoog said:

Except the Kinzhal is hypersonic. I don't care about US propaganda attempts to redefine what the word means i.e. something that travels over Mach 3. We also define bullets as supersonic and subsonic and they don't have wings or airbreathing engines either.
The US is just trying to paper over the fact they lack an equivalent weapon to the Kinzhal with its Newspeak nonsense.

The Ukrainians claim they cannot intercept the Kh-32. Yet you think they can intercept the Kinzhal reliably? Yeah right.
We have videos showing the Kinzhal flying and striking ground targets in Ukraine. Yet there are no such videos showing interceptions.

Russia does not produce more Kinzhals because they don't have that many launch platforms for it to begin with.

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A hypersonic cruise missile and ballistic missile both fly at the hypersonic speed but they have different flight qualities that could make them easier or more difficult to intercept. It isn't really a stretch to say that a ballistic missile would be more easily intercepted than a hypersonic cruise missile. A ballistic missile has a trajectory where you can calculate its flight path and impact point. That give you the ability to calculate an intercept point all along the flight path, something you can't do with a cruise missile because you simply don't know what it is targeting from the flight path.

Sinnavuuty said:

This seems like copium, but I'll post it anyway:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

According to Business Insider, the unsatisfactory performance of this weapon is not being viewed favorably by Chinese analysts, who look at the war in Ukraine as a testing ground for Western weapons.

In an analysis considered "surprising" by the publication, Yin Jie, a military expert at Ordnance Industry Science and Technology magazine, wrote a criticism of the Kinzhal in November, considering that they have “little chance of succeeding on the battlefield”.

Quoted by Business Insider, Yin described Kinzhal as a “short-term and rushed project” that was launched “by force” due to Western pressure.

Chinese concern about the lack of effectiveness of the Kinzhal has a basis, according to the magazine, as Beijing would hope to collect more positive data on the effectiveness of this weapon against Western defensive equipment, to be able to apply it to the development of its own line of missiles. hypersonics, the Dongfeng family.

Click to expand...

I wonder why the author did not compare Kinzhal with LRHW. Both of them use the same "symetric gliding body" design as DF-21D and many others.

When people talk about China's hypersonic missile, it is only DF-17 which is a true glider, not something like DF-21D, Kinzhal or LRHW. By comparing Kinzhal and DF-17, the author is substituting concept, 耍流氓. By not bringing up LRHW, he is mentally musterbating.

[add]
The journal "Ordnance Industry Science and Technology" 兵工科技 is an entertainment magazine, the Chinese analyst Yin Jie is a nobody. It represents nothing of China's concern. The author probably confused it with a real serious journey of similar name 兵工学报 which publishes research papers and need state approval.

I think I have come across this "Matthew Loh", now he is in my bash list forever.

taxiya said:

I wonder why the author did not compare Kinzhal with LRHW. Both of them use the same "symetric gliding body" design as DF-21D and many others.

When people talk about China's hypersonic missile, it is only DF-17 which is a true glider, not something like DF-21D, Kinzhal or LRHW. By comparing Kinzhal and DF-17, the author is substituting concept, 耍流氓. By not bringing up LRHW, he is mentally musterbating.

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Do the YJ-21 and 2PZD-21 belong to the same category as the DF-21D and LRHW as well?

ACuriousPLAFan said:

Do the YJ-21 and the D-21 belong to the same category as the DF-21D and LRHW?

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Some DF-21 variants are using the same kind of design. I don't know about YJ-21.

We just went through the West concluding Xi is not confident in China's missile forces because they found water in the fuel tank. Now China is not confident in its own hypersonic missiles because of supposed Russian short-cummings their with hypersonic weapons...? The conclusion seems to be all hypersonic missiles don't work as hyped or is it only Western hypersonic missiles work when they haven't shown one of theirs does? Let's forget the history US lying about how well their ABM systems worked.