Chinese Hypersonic Developments (HGVs/HCMs)

A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
taxiya said:
The graph is probably from me which I got from a Chinese book.
View attachment 117040In this book it presented calculations based on certain parameters of rocket stage, heat load, max altitudes. It presented three conclusions, ranges are from >5000km, >8000km and >12000km. For the 5000km study, the shortest range is 1800km, the shortest range gives the largest side range. If the missile is to reach the furthest range 5000km, it can not maneuver, it has to travel a straight line.

It is all about energy, the 5000km max range and 1800km shortest range have the same energy. Now when somebody says DF-17's range being 1800-2500km, what exactly that means? If 1800 is the minimum, the maximum should be over 5000km according to the study. Just by looking at the 1800-2500 figure, I highly doubt whoever put up these numbers know what he was talking about.

View attachment 117042
A 5000km max range is NOT over engineering, it's true intended target is somewhere within 4000km. The "extra" energy is for evading interception (for both fixed and moving target) or chasing moving target. I am sure LRHW's "extrodinary" range is the maximum range, but as it is much less maneuverable, it's minimum range is much higher therefor giving an impressive number, but it is really a disadvantage instead of being proud of.
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So technically speaking, that means the DF-17 can actually reach targets in the 2IC? Similarly to how the DF-27 is able to reach targets in Hawaii if travelling in a largely-straight path?

No wonder the Pentagon is already talking about bolstering Guam's defenses against not just ballistic missiles, but also hypersonic missiles, back when only the DF-17 was made public - Maybe because they already knew that the DF-17 isn't limited to the widely-reported strike range of 1800-2500 kilometers?

Perhaps that 2500-kilometer quote is mainly refered as the effective strike range of DF-17 with considerable amount of maneuvering in order to evade enemy defenses (with the option to extend that further out to 3000+ or 4000+ kilometers when situation permits)?

taxiya said:
But if people really want to compete for useless straight line race, DF-17 is probably able to go as far as LRHW.
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Or, actually more. Looks like the LRHW is mostly a Kinzhal-counterpart instead of a DF-17-counterpart.
 
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A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
368042578_1431770304279178_8724366361619867619_n.jpg

Roughly translated:
[Foreign media said that "DF-27" flew 5,000 kilometers and hit a moving target at sea] Recently, foreign news media said that "DF-27" accurately hit a moving target at sea 5,000 kilometers away. Du Wenlong, a military expert, said that this shows that the missile already has the capability of anti-aircraft carrier at a long distance, forcing the US aircraft carrier to have no chance to reach China's surrounding areas.
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"Foreign news media said"

Bruh, YOU ARE the OFFICIAL Weibo account for the People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force (PLAAF)...
 
A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
Bruh, YOU ARE the OFFICIAL Weibo account for the People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force (PLASSF)...
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Minor but important correction.

Temstar said:
I saw this rumour about DF-27 test floating around for ages and could never find the original Chinese source.
Now that PLASSF is saying it does it have credibility?
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Maybe....?

Or maybe it's doing the work of the 战恐局? Who knows.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
ACuriousPLAFan said:
View attachment 117297

Roughly translated:


"Foreign news media said"

Bruh, YOU ARE the OFFICIAL Weibo account for the People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force (PLAAF)...
Click to expand...
The original video is here
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


At 00:18 it says the maximum range is 8000km (to hit mobile target at 5000km), which matches the middle one in my post #1,210 indirectly proving that DF-17's max range is 5000km.

BTW, the account is official, but PLA will NEVER officially publish any figures, nor aiming at any specific target/oponent in any way, so you either accept this "stupidity" or don't get anything official at all. It isn't about confidence, self-respect or foreign-whorship.
 
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B

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
taxiya said:
The original video is here
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


At 00:18 it says the maximum range is 8000km (to hit mobile target at 5000km), which matches the middle one in my post #1,210 indirectly proving that DF-17's max range is 5000km.

BTW, the account is official, but PLA will NEVER officially publish any figures, nor aiming at any specific target/oponent in any way, so you either accept this "stupidity" or don't get anything official at all. It isn't about confidence, self-respect or foreign-whorship.
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They do public official figures... It's just that it's ultra delayed until like after platforms 1 or 2 generations ahead have entered service...

Mobile target capability of DF17 was always interesting, as it wasn't officially stated but also not denied. The DF100 has mobile target capability, but even less is known about it in other areas.

I think this is as close of an official confirmation as it can get that the DF17 has it.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Biscuits said:
They do public official figures... It's just that it's ultra delayed until like after platforms 1 or 2 generations ahead have entered service...

Mobile target capability of DF17 was always interesting, as it wasn't officially stated but also not denied. The DF100 has mobile target capability, but even less is known about it in other areas.

I think this is as close of an official confirmation as it can get that the DF17 has it.
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The whole point of an HGV is maneuverability so uhhh better hope it has it.
 
Kalec

Kalec

Junior Member
Registered Member
TL;DR CASC is developing a new solid scramjet engine, very likely powered by Boron instead of liquid engine.

近日，航天科技集团四院43所参与研制的新型固体粉末超燃冲压发动机顺利通过试验考核，其间发动机燃烧室燃烧稳定，压强曲线符合设计要求，试验后燃烧室结构完整，试验获得圆满成功。

此次试验，43所为该型号超燃冲压发动机提供了全套燃烧室热防护组件，验证了43所超高温碳陶复合材料的长时间热防护性能，为后续研制产品演示飞行试验奠定了坚实的技术基础。

相较于传统的液体超燃冲压发动机，固体粉末超燃冲压发动机具有能量密度高、加速能力强等特点，是满足未来装备需求的理想动力选择。
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Machine translation:

Recently, the new solid-powder scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) developed by 43rd Institute of the Fourth Academy, CASC successfully passed the test, the engine combustion chamber was stable, the pressure curve was in line with the design requirements, and the combustion chamber was structurally intact after the test, which made the test a complete success.


In this test, the 43rd Institute provided a full set of combustion chamber thermal protection components for this type of scramjet, which verified the long-time thermal protection performance of ultra-high-temperature carbon ceramic composite materials of the 43rd Institute, and laid a solid technical foundation for the subsequent development of product demonstration flight test.


Compared with the traditional liquid one, solid powder scramjet engine is characterized by high energy density and strong acceleration capability, which is an ideal power option to meet the future equipment needs.
 
T

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Kalec said:
TL;DR CASC is developing a new solid scramjet engine, very likely powered by Boron instead of liquid engine.


Machine translation:

Recently, the new solid-powder scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) developed by 43rd Institute of the Fourth Academy, CASC successfully passed the test, the engine combustion chamber was stable, the pressure curve was in line with the design requirements, and the combustion chamber was structurally intact after the test, which made the test a complete success.


In this test, the 43rd Institute provided a full set of combustion chamber thermal protection components for this type of scramjet, which verified the long-time thermal protection performance of ultra-high-temperature carbon ceramic composite materials of the 43rd Institute, and laid a solid technical foundation for the subsequent development of product demonstration flight test.


Compared with the traditional liquid one, solid powder scramjet engine is characterized by high energy density and strong acceleration capability, which is an ideal power option to meet the future equipment needs.
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Two corrections:

1. The engine isn't developed by 43 institute. 43 is only a member of the program providing the protection elements of the combustion chamber.
"航天科技集团四院43所参与研制的新型固体粉末超燃冲压发动机...43所为该型号超燃冲压发动机提供了全套燃烧室热防护组件"

2. Boron is probably one of the ingridians of the powder, but not the main ingridians which includes Aluminium and Magnisium according to many papers that I have found such as this one
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In the paper, Boron is identified having a characteristic that makes it impossible to work alone although it has its unique usefulness.

Here is a schematic diagram of the engine from the paper.
1692550776003.png
 
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