Chinese Geopolitics

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Blackstone

Brigadier
I was in an Asian history class with a Japanese exchange student. A very cool hippy guy, with very liberal views, but he knew almost nothing about the atrocities committed by the Japanese military around Asia. The Japanese education system only paints the Japanese people as the victim of WWII.
I wonder if it would be helpful for China and South Korea to take the message directly to the Japanese people, take out ads in the Japanese media, explain to the Japanese people directly what their government has been hiding from them. Tell them about the brutality of the occupation of Korea, the drug smuggling and prostitution ring ran by the Japanese military, Unit 731,etc.

Japanese people are on balance decent and conscientious, and if given evidence of unspeakable war crimes, they would want their government to stop whitewashing its imperialist history. Forgiveness can't not be rendered if the guilty refuses to show true contrition and assume responsibility for its crimes.
 

joshuatree

Captain
I was in an Asian history class with a Japanese exchange student. A very cool hippy guy, with very liberal views, but he knew almost nothing about the atrocities committed by the Japanese military around Asia. The Japanese education system only paints the Japanese people as the victim of WWII.
I wonder if it would be helpful for China and South Korea to take the message directly to the Japanese people, take out ads in the Japanese media, explain to the Japanese people directly what their government has been hiding from them. Tell them about the brutality of the occupation of Korea, the drug smuggling and prostitution ring ran by the Japanese military, Unit 731,etc.

Good idea, here's hoping someone with the means tries this approach. Let's just see how tolerant Japanese media will be.


From that august body known as the US Senate comes a bipartisan measure, condemning China's Diaoyu-area ADIZ. It would be more credible had the institution also condemned Japan's two unilateral expansions in 1972 and 2010.

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A waste of time, better spent if they worked on solutions to help the average American citizen instead.
 

advill

Junior Member
There's an interesting quote from the bible which is pertinent to discussions/comments on past atrocities: "Those without sin cast the first stones".
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
China initiative and opportunity to become one of the founding members of a new AIIB. Some of the 4 trillion reserves can be put to work, generating more economic development across Asia. This somewhat will spread China soft power and other nations around Asia can have alternative to obtain funds to develop and protect themselves in terms of crisis or capital flight. The one time US banker, China now might want to have its own institution that it may lead. Invitation sent to Japan, but looks like Japan not joining...

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This time around, the initiative is led by China, whose economic power and financial influence are much greater than they were in 1997-1998. The country is ready to lead by example when it comes to financial...

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On a more global scale, BRIC bank is forming up...fed up with the IMF/World Bank not giving them more representation due to their more robust economies, BRICs are making up a New Development Bank...here again, those cannot borrow from the US led institution IMF can borrow from the NDB (New Development Bank).

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The countries are looking to set up a development bank to finance infrastructure projects as well as a reserve fund to fend off currency and balance of payments crises.
...

yes the AIIB is a very extraordinary deveiopment because for the very first time asia will have another policy bank available to them that is free from US/japan veto. and it would be very interesting to see who will be the shareholders. xi jinping just visited south korea and invited president park guen hye to participate and play a major role in the AIIB but the united states is putting pressure on korea to pass on AIIB. so far korea said it will study the issue and have not made any decision yet. the ADB is headquartered in manila so where would the AIIB be? my favorite place would be Taipei, right in the tapei 101 building (if Taiwan joins and they definitely should)
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
There's an interesting quote from the bible which is pertinent to discussions/comments on past atrocities: "Those without sin cast the first stones".

And then there's John 8:31-32; To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Truth will set the Japanese people free.
 

port_08

Junior Member
Lol, already the naysayer and spoilt sports warning South Korea. China cannot challenge the "status quo". I mean, before the fall of Rome, a current hegemon usually resist their receding influence ... :p

Here a stark warning to South Korea from US. South Korea should get in line like Japan but forever a 3rd place in Uncle Sam's heart, not the favourite childe unlike Japan who's very obedient..

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If China has a dream of a great renewal, Abe's Japan also has a dream of becoming East Asia's leader with a military that can wage war. Within the U.S.-China confrontation, China's dream and Japan's dream collide at the East and South China Seas. Preventing a collision on the Korean Peninsula is the difficult yet urgent task of Korea's diplomacy. The proposal of Xi for an Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank must not be accepted because it came from China, or rejected because the United States protests it. A decision that best serves Korea's national interest must be made.
...
 

port_08

Junior Member
I'm not surprise about this piece of news, buying and selling island is usually what the Japanese government do, eg. buying Diaoyu from a "private" ownership. The whole Okinawan islands are being bartered about between US and Japan make sense, as victor of WW2 US wants to make military bases in Okinawa. Geo politically this make sense, as wants to keep an eye on China :p

Hidding from truth is also the Japan government job quite adept at, eg. erasing entire textbook and entire Japanese generation brought up without realising the awful truth about Japan imperial war atrocities, lied to the public about abandoning the pacifist constitution, fukushima cover up..you wonder what the Japanese public really don't know what's their government up to, blocking the freedom of information...

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In its 2011 decision, the Tokyo High Court accepted the government’s argument that the documents were disposed of before the law on freedom of information was enacted to avoid exposing Japan’s secret negotiations with the United States.

The deal was made secret because the Japanese government didn’t want the public to think Okinawa had been “bought back” from the United States, according to the high court ruling.
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joshuatree

Captain
China expanding naval influence, now Greece propose joint patrol PLAN with Greek Navy...now more option for Chinese navy port of call

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Crete could serve as a regional node for the support, maintenance and repair of the Chinese Navy and the possibility exists for joint naval operations between Greece and China’s People's Liberation Army Navy, the prime minister told the visiting Chinese president on Rhodes on Sunday.

"On Crete there is all the appropriate infrastructure for refuelling, maintenance and repairs for all your country’s navy units. There is a possibility of cooperation, for example, in joint patrols of war ships. And another example, in the area of fighting piracy, where the interests of our two peoples coincide," Antonis Samaras told Xi Jinping.
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Interesting, if things move forward, perhaps some day naval exports to Greek Navy? Type 056 exports?
 

SamuraiBlue

Captain
You could read it on pages 2 and 3 of an official US government publication called Senkaku (Diaoyu/Diaoyutai) Islands Dispute: U.S. Treaty Obligations, by Mark E. Manyin, September 25, 2012. Here’s a link to the document:

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The claims of China and Taiwan have a similar basis. China asserts that its Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) considered the islands part of its maritime territory and included them on maps and documents of areas covered by Ming Dynasty coastal defenses. China claims that the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) went further and placed the islands under the jurisdiction of Taiwan, which was a part of the Qing Dynasty. In 1893, the Dowager Empress of China, Cixi, made a grant of the islands to Sheng Xuanhuai, head of the Imperial Household, who collected medical herbs on them. However, although there are claims that Chinese fishermen used the islands as places of temporary shelter and repair, China never established a permanent settlement of civilians or military personnel on the islands, and apparently did not maintain permanent naval forces in adjacent waters.

Japan, which argues that there is no territorial dispute, laid claim to the islands in January 1895,
when the Japanese Emperor approved an Imperial Ordinance annexing them to Japan.5 Before
then, Japan argues, the islands were uninhabited and “showed no trace of having been under the control of China,” positions the Chinese and Taiwanese governments reject.6 In May 1895, Japan and the Qing Dynasty government of China signed the Treaty of Shimonoseki ending the Sino-Japanese war that had begun the previous year. Under the Treaty, which China today considers one of a number of “unequal treaties” forced on it by foreign powers, China ceded Taiwan (Formosa) to Japan “together with all the islands appertaining or belonging to the said island of Formosa.” The Treaty did not specifically mention the Senkakus (Diaoyu/Diaoyutai) and the islands were not discussed during the negotiating sessions. Japan has claimed from this that its incorporation of the Senkakus (Diaoyu/Diaoyutai) was an act apart from the Sino-Japanese War. In contrast, China and Taiwan argue that Japan used its victory in the war to annex the islands. They also argue that the intent of the Allied declarations at Cairo and Potsdam during World War

I never have imagined that the PRC propaganda on Senkaku was based on a Japanese book.

It’s a sheer lie that the Senkaku Islands have been Chinese territory since the Ming Dynasty
Professor SHIMOJO Masao, Takushoku University


[excerpt] Evidence contrived by Inoue Kiyoshi about the Chinese territorial claim over the Senkaku Islands
It is simply amazing that the evidence the Chinese use to support their historical assertion was provided by a Japanese scholar. Former Kyoto University professor Inoue Kiyoshi published in 1972 a book entitled The Senkaku Islands — Historical Analysis on Diayutai Islands. In the preface to the book Inoue writes, “Did Japan rob China of the Senkaku Islands during the Sino - Japanese War?
If so, the Senkaku Islands must have been automatically returned to China, based on the territorial clause of the Potsdam
Declaration, the moment Japan unconditionally accepted the Potsdam Declaration, which was issued by the Allied countries, including China, and surrendered. If Japan were to claim once again that the Senkaku Islands are Japanese territory, it would be nothing more than a recurrence of Japanese Imperialism.”[/excerpt]

Flaws in the Chinese arguments
According to Inoue’s assertion, the evidence supporting the claim that the Senkaku Islands are Chinese territory lies in the fact that the Senkaku Islands were used as a navigational reference during the Ming Dynasty(14th to 16th century) and Qing Dynasty(17th to 20th century), when Chinese Imperial missions were sent to the tributary state, the Ryukyu Kingdom (present day Okinawa Prefecture).
In one of the voyage guide books of the Ming, Shunfen Xiangsong or Fair Winds Voyage (1403), an island named Diaoyuyu among the Senkaku Islands is seen.
China also depends on records of the Imperial missions sent to the Ryukyu Kingdom since the Ming Dynasty onward as evidence to support their assertion that the Senkaku Islands are historically Chinese territory. In Record of Mission to Ryukyu by Chen Kan (1534), Revised Record of Ryukyu Missions by Guo Rulin (1562), Assorted Record of Ryukyu Missions by Wang Ji (1683), Zhongshan Chuanxinlu by Xu Baoguang (1719), Summarized Record of Ryukyu by Zhou Huang (1756), Record of Ryukyu Missions by Li Dingyuan (1800), Continued Summary of Ryukyu by Zhai Kun (1808) and others appear
reference to the Senkaku Islands (Diayuyu or Diayutai) and in Zhongshan Chuanyinlu and Summarized Record of Ryukyu appears a “voyage chart” depicting Diayuyu, Huangweiyu and Chiweiyu.
Among these, Record of Ryukyu Mission states “Kumejima (the town of Kumejima in Okinawa Prefecture) belongs to Ryukyu,” and Assorted Record of Ryukyu Envoys designates the area between Kumejima and Chiweiyu as a “national boundary”. Based on these descriptions, China maintains that the area up to Kumejima is Ryukyu territory and that to the west of Chiweiyu, including the Senkaku Islands, is Chinese territory.

Where is the northern boundary of Taiwan?

In the autumn of 2005, Marine Country, one of the lost volumes that was a part of Six Phases of Fleet Life, was located at an antique book fair in China. In the book, there is a description: “At 5 o’clock of the 13th I saw Diayutai.” China regards this as unarguable evidence showing that the Senkaku Islands were Chinese territory.
However, there is no authentic evidence to support the assertion that the Senkaku Islands are Chinese territory, based on the description in Marine Country.
Marine Country recorded the experiences of the main character in Six Phases of Fleet Life, who accompanied Imperial Mission Zhai Kun and went to the Ryukyus in 1808. Mission Zhai Kun left Fuzhou early in the intercalary month of May of 1808 and sailed through Wuhumen, Jilongshan, Diayutai, Chiweiyu, Heigouyang, Gumishan and Machishan, and entered
the port of Naha on the evening of the 17th of the leap month of May.....

The boundary of the province of Taiwan is also drawn in the General Map of Taiwan Province in the Book of Taiwan Province. Based on this map, the Boundary Map of Taiwan Province in the government compiled Imperial Collection of Old and New Books(published in 1728), depicted in Photo 3, the map does not depict the Senkaku Islands. What is actually shown is the area up to Jilongshan, which is considered to be the northernmost part of the province of Taiwan. In the Book of Great Qing, published in 1744 (the 9th year of Qianlong) the northernmost boundary of Taiwan is Jilongcheng.
The Map of Taiwan Province in the Book of Great Qing does not show the Senkaku Islands. The same is true of the Marine Country Travel Record(1793). The Senkaku Islands are not part of the province of Taiwan and therefore not Chinese territory.....

Following the Map of the Great Qing, geographical recognition that Jilongshan and Jilong Castle mark the northern
boundary of Taiwan is also consistently maintained in books compiled during the period of the Chinese Republic, such as
in Dynasty Document Review(1912) and Qing History. Even when China became a republic after the Qing Dynasty, the Senkaku Islands never became a part of Taiwan.

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Basically it has all been refuted by various scholars.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
I never have imagined that the PRC propaganda on Senkaku was based on a Japanese book.
So, what's your point? All four sides, US, China, Taiwan Province, and Japan would use whatever sources to make their cases. Shinzo Abe surely would use Chinese documents to bolster his claims, if he could. Deny it if you can.

Basically it has all been refuted by various scholars.

Oh dear, are we going to have a food fight with collections of academic papers? Heaven forbid!

I greatly admire and respect serious Japanese scholars, so I take their works on point. However, there are well-respected historians and political scientists from all sides, including Japan, that give different narratives and conclude China has better claims. I think you know that.
 
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