Chinese General news resource thread

[solarz]

All this is really beside the point. The CPC doesn't need to stamp out all corruption, they only need to stamp out *enough* corruption to keep people relatively happy.

水至清则无鱼

 

[shen]

Note the key operative word "party preservation" and not self preservation.

The survival of the party depend on the prosperity of the nation. So if Xi's anti-corruption campaign is meant to ensure the prosperity of the nation therefore ensure the survival of the party, what's wrong with that?

 

[Doombreed]

You can only have 50% if there is a definition of 100%.

You talked about "higher standard". What are you basing this standard on?

Oh I dunno. Nordic countries? New Zealand maybe? But of cause, of cause, you would say that China's history and unqiue circumstances does not lend to a fair comparsion. Just like how gun control will never be implmeneted in America due to her unique history and circumstances right? So as America must get use to periodic incidence of gun violence, China must get use to a certain level of corruption...etc etc etc

 

[Doombreed]

So now you admit historically China was less corrupt. Do you think you need to retract your original statement which I found objectionable?

Lol. No. I said arguably. I stand by my original statement.

And I think I need to clarify my original statement. I didn't say China was always and at every incidence more corrupt. What I meant was that there is a history of tribute and bribes in Chinese officialdom. That corruption is not a recent phenomenon for China.

 

[shen]

Oh I dunno. Nordic countries? New Zealand maybe? But of cause, of cause, you would say that China's history and unqiue circumstances does not lend to a fair comparsion. Just like how gun control will never be implmeneted in America due to her unique history and circumstances right? So as America must get use to periodic incidence of gun violence, China must get use to a certain level of corruption...etc etc etc

Did you write "gun control"? man I feel sorry for you. Where is Blackstone and other American posters.

 

[Blitzo]

Oh absolutely. And a very good call out. Very balanced.

And if that's how every posters felt then we're in good company. But I feel, again, I use that word, some people may use that relative comparison as a way of being an apologist for the CCP.

Look, I get it, it's a tribal thing. "He's a bastard but he's our bastard". But people need to decouple defending the CCP with defending the Chinese nation and the Chinese people. Criticizing the CCP is not critising the Chinese nation and the Chinese people. Of cause it's not just the Chinese nationlists doing it. You can see this in every brand of nationalists. Fox News being a great example.

But I guess it's a matter of education, and why your balanced analysis is so important.

Look, I think if you asked most posters here regarding how the CCP can improve or what problems they have, we will not hesitate to give examples.

The problem is that those examples are often used (by western pundits as media) to promote short sighted and IMO illogical political reform ideas which would probably do more damage than good.
The balance we've reached now is that china critics are often seen as (or are) seeking complete political change without considering other factors, and defenders of the current system will be seen as apologists and may go on the offensive to attack how western institutions aren't better in some respects, which leads to a perception that they will accept anything the CCP does as correct (which I don't think is true or many posters)

This divide I would argue is entirely the fault of western media and discourse criticising china on virtually all counts and promoting democracy or bust, making anything less be seen as unacceptable and leaving little room for real discussion and naturally causing many Chinese to feel their country is being unfairly criticised at best, or the target of foreign media warfare at worst

 

[solarz]

Oh I dunno. Nordic countries? New Zealand maybe? But of cause, of cause, you would say that China's history and unqiue circumstances does not lend to a fair comparsion. Just like how gun control will never be implmeneted in America due to her unique history and circumstances right? So as America must get use to periodic incidence of gun violence, China must get use to a certain level of corruption...etc etc etc

So you do base your standards on the characteristics of other nations.

Why do you believe that we should compare China to Denmark and New Zealand instead of US and Japan?

 

[Brumby]

everything is relative.

The problem I see with your "everything is covered in shit" analogy and assessing it on an absolute rather than relative scale is not to avoid criticising the CCP or whatever, but rather it doesn't shine a light on whether there is anyone out there who can clean the shit out in a better way.

By all means, let's strive to continue to be better, regardless of how other countries perform. But more often than not, western pundits are using that as a slippery slope to call for overthrow of the CCP (implied or explicit), or at the very least adoption if a fully western political system. That is why looking at things in a relative way is important, because it discredits those dangerous extremist views whose arguments basically boil down to "something something CCP the most evil/worst". If it can be pointed out that actually the CCP governing style isn't the worst compared to other countries some of whih are "democracies" then it leads to more honest discussion about whether democracy should be adopted or whether the present governing style should simply be modified to reduce those adverse effects like corruption

Propensity to corrupt and be corrupted is a outflow of human nature and behaviour. It is not a function of political system be it democratic or one party. When you have rule of law, transparency, accountability, and due process to enforce then corruptive practices will not prevail. So the question is with Xi's governing style what more do we want to see if corruption is truly to be addressed?

 

[solarz]

That corruption is not a recent phenomenon for China.

Corruption is not a recent phenomenon for human civilization.

 

[shen]

Lol. No. I said arguably. I stand by my original statement.

And I think I need to clarify my original statement. I didn't not say China was always and at every incidence more corrupt. What I meant was that there is a history of tribute and bribes in Chinese officialdom. That corruption is not a recent phenomenon for China.

Is corruption only a recent phenomenon in any country? Is there any country with out a history of tribute and bribes? If not, what is the point of your statement?