Chinese General news resource thread

[Blackstone]

South China Morning Post reports orders from Beijing to ban Ramadan fasting for students, teachers, and government officials. Initial reports were from Western news agencies, without Chinese media confirmation, but now we have Chinese sources reporting the same. No one can be sure of all the unintended consequences, but one of them surely will be non-compliance from many Muslem students, and maybe even teachers and CCP officials.

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Beijing has banned civil servants, students and teachers in the mainly Muslim Xinjiang region from taking part in Ramadan fasting, government websites said...

 

[AssassinsMace]

The original topic was China banning Ramadan fasting Xinjing and possible consequence of it, and he tried to steer it off on a tangent.

That's your spin. Who was arguing that the BBC is credible? I then took examples that also had nothing to do with anti-Muslim news on how the BBC is not credible. To which then fallacious arguments were used to make it out as being an apologist.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

I don't really see how much traction Abe can gain with NK even despite a falling out between NK and China (and things haven't quite gotten that bad yet).

Japan can hardly pursue a meaningful relationship without the US's tacit approval, and I doubt the US would be too keen on Japan siding with NK if NK doesn't do anything to change its nuclear ambitions. And the US can't exactly keep quiet with its most important ally in east asia cosying up with the most backwards, despotic and self destructive nation on the planet, which happens to be an enemy of both the US and its second most important ally in east asia.


He might score a few short term points, but I think the chances of a more beneficial and longer term (and more geopolitically significant) relationship between China and SK is far more likely than one occurring between NK and Japan, at least in the short to medium term.

I doubt the Japanese will get anything of worth from NK anyway. the North Koreans turn hate of Japan into a near religious experience. The only thing they hate more is the US.
Abe has to know that the best he is hoping for is North Korea to stop pointing missile tests Japan's way.

as for Kim he wants something to rub on China's carpet. Did you notice that for the first time in since the division of the Koreas Xia visited South Korea before North Korea. And the PRC has cut the North Korean Fuel lines. That's got to have young Kim felling it in he gut.

Abe's concern though is the PRC and the pressure it has placed on his nation. He can't be the Prime Minister who hands Japanese territory over to China. He is hardly the flaming nationalist some like to paint him but he's no stooge either. Hence his moves to re arm and align. His hope is that he can build up just enough military power to give China pause on any move to claim sovereign territory. He knows his nation is no where near the possibility of any kind of grand ambition. The Japan that once nearly conquered the pacific and Asia is long dead. Even if he wanted such he lacks the population and resources. All he wants is the status quo maintained. To do this he needs some help. The US, the Australians and others who are willing to back them. The problem for Abe and Japan is a south Korea who is willing to eat out of China's hand robs Japan of options.

 

[Blackstone]

I don't really see how much traction Abe can gain with NK even despite a falling out between NK and China (and things haven't quite gotten that bad yet).

Abe is trying where he can, and will go for any openings. NK will play Japan/US/China/ROK as much as possible, but that's to be expected.

Japan can hardly pursue a meaningful relationship without the US's tacit approval,..

That used to be the case, when Japan was basically a vassal state of the US. China's rising importance, however, will divert US/Japan national interests. Moving forward, Japan can't be certain if America will fully back it against a more and more powerful China, so Abe is doing what he can to prepare for a possibly bad future.

He might score a few short term points, but I think the chances of a more beneficial and longer term (and more geopolitically significant) relationship between China and SK is far more likely than one occurring between NK and Japan, at least in the short to medium term.

Abe really has little choice but to look for any opportunity to "counterweight" China. Problem for Japan is unless China falls off the rails, she will continue to accumulate wealth and power, and by the time China reaches "developed nation" status (around 2030, give or take), she'll have an economy about 3-4 times bigger than Japan. Since wealth is power, China would loom over Japan. So, Abe in DPRK isn't only about foreign relations today, it's about laying groundwork for tomorrow. Got to give the man credit for trying.

 

[AssassinsMace]

It's obvious a spin from the media because North Korea is not buddying up with Japan. If North Korea was going to pick an ally, it would be Russia more than Japan. Russia is not taking orders from the US like Japan has to. So will Japan get all the heat for supporting rogue North Korea now? What does the US think about that? Isn't that one of the excuses to hate China all about supporting the rogue North Korean regime? Those in the media don't like how South Korea doesn't have the same anti-China attitude as Japan and Vietnam and the Philippines not being on the same page as them. Why? Because it's not South Korea's fault. Like North Korea doesn't feel the same way to why South Koreans are reluctant about Japan? Japan obviously wants to stick it to South Korea by being insensitive. If Japan's right tilt is because of China, why are they going out their way to insult South Korea too? People think an anti-China coalition needs Japan to work. They forget South Korea has the same power. The US knows it because they have to make counter statements to diffuse Japan's insulting comments. If South Korea weren't as important, the US wouldn't have to care about what South Korea thinks and not bother to counter Japanese insensitive statements. The media making it look like North Korea was buddies with Japan is to get South Korea to think twice. Plus the sun is setting on Japan. In ten years South Korea will probably surpass Japan in most areas. Another reason why Japan has to insult South Korea because they're losing their place.

 

[Blackstone]

That's your spin. Who was arguing that the BBC is credible? I then took examples that also had nothing to do with anti-Muslim news on how the BBC is not credible. To which then fallacious arguments were used to make it out as being an apologist.

And that's your spin. I don't care who was talking about the BBC. My original post was about CCP officials' ham-fisted actions in banning Ramadan fasting, and it would make tensions worse, not better. If you wish to argue the counterpoint on Ramadan fasting, then by all means proceed.

 

[AssassinsMace]

And that's your spin. I don't care who was talking about the BBC. My original post was about CCP officials' ham-fisted actions in banning Ramadan fasting, and it would make tensions worse, not better. If you wish to argue the counterpoint on Ramadan fasting, then by all means proceed.

And you and doombred didn't have to bring up how the BBC was credible... Because you did, it's a point of argument. So don't think you have the right to control the conversation. Funny how you demand no one can argue against someone who introduced the idea that the BBC was credible... How very communist...

 

[Blackstone]

I doubt the Japanese will get anything of worth from NK anyway. the North Koreans turn hate of Japan into a near religious experience. The only thing they hate more is the US.
Abe has to know that the best he is hoping for is North Korea to stop pointing missile tests Japan's way.

as for Kim he wants something to rub on China's carpet. Did you notice that for the first time in since the division of the Koreas Xia visited South Korea before North Korea. And the PRC has cut the North Korean Fuel lines. That's got to have young Kim felling it in he gut.

Xi Jinping is showing the "6 Parties" he's serious about nuclear disarmament in the Korean peninsula, and if DPRK wouldn't play ball, then he'll go to its archenemy, ROK. Kim Jong un might throw a fit, but he could do little else.

Abe's concern though is the PRC and the pressure it has placed on his nation. He can't be the Prime Minister who hands Japanese territory over to China. He is hardly the flaming nationalist some like to paint him but he's no stooge either. Hence his moves to re arm and align. His hope is that he can build up just enough military power to give China pause on any move to claim sovereign territory.

Everything looks good, except the part about Abe's nationalism. Shinzo Abe's grandfather was a class-A war criminal, and that never sat well with him. He's made it a mission to reverse what he calls "victor's justice," and nationalism is in his blood. That's the reason for Yasukuni visit, and that's why he continues to whitewash Japan's militarist history.

He knows his nation is no where near the possibility of any kind of grand ambition. The Japan that once nearly conquered the pacific and Asia is long dead. Even if he wanted such he lacks the population and resources. All he wants is the status quo maintained. To do this he needs some help. The US, the Australians and others who are willing to back them.

US, Australia, and most of ASEAN's national interests are already diverging from Japan, and Abe is very sober about it. That's why he's busy trying to court friends to join Japan as "counterweight" to China. If Abe trusted the US to provide security against China, then he wouldn't have changed the pacifist constitution. The handwriting is on the wall, and Shinzo Abe sees it.

The problem for Abe and Japan is a south Korea who is willing to eat out of China's hand robs Japan of options.

That's too harsh. Korea has a problem Japan and Australia don't have, close proximity to China. Korea lived with a hegemon for thousands of years, so it knows how to work the policies it must to stay on China's good side, while retaining as much independence as possible.

 

[SampanViking]

Thank goodness for the clarification. Although it's not exactly too much better as that's still repressing the religious choices of civil servants, yet in a way that's a lot better in the sense the public at least are not going to be affected by this policy. I have a few Muslim friends who are pretty upset about that right now, and this will certainly help me clarify for them.

Others have also mentioned Teachers and Students in addition to Public Officials.
Point 1, is that most teachers will teach in State Schools and thus be technically Public Officials. You can add Hospital Staff to this as well (would you want to go under the knife for major surgery, with a Surgeon who has been fasting for several weeks?)
We all know how competitive China's education system is, so its not exactly rocket science to work out that teachers and students, slowed down by the effects of a months fasting, will be disadvantaged against other staff and students.

Finally of course, most of what is written assumes that all affected Chinese Muslims are all uniformly devout and observant. I doubt this. Previous experience has taught me that for every truly devout follower that sees this measure as an oppression, there will be many others, far less devout; observant only because it is "socially expected" and actually pleased to have an official dispensation.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

A clarification, those fasting for Ramadan are only doing so during daylight hours. Before dawn or after dusk they pig out to there hearts content. So they are not starving themselves for the whole thing. In fact studies show that more food is consumed in Ramadan then less.