Chinese Engines Miss The Finish Line

MiG-29 said:

Let us say this, that is what Russian outlets say, not my words, second do you have an official chinese source from AVIC that tells the whole history of WS-10?

I mean no this guy from this forum said, or that guy from that forum, official sources.

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I am saying what your source claims China-defence-mashup said when in fact CDM said nothing of the sort.

That impacts on the credibility of your source when the quote itself is verifiably wrong with its own context.

Here is the claim:

MiG-29 said:

According to china-defense-mashup.com, the head of China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC) Zuomin Lin (Lin Zuoming) acknowledged that worked on the basis of the Russian AL-31F turbofans Chinese analogue WS -10 Taihang ( на фото ) still can not get a satisfactory standard of quality


Как сообщает china-defense-mashup.com, руководитель Авиационной промышленной корпорации Китая (AVIC) Линь Зуоминь (Lin Zuoming) признал, что разработанный на базе российского ТРДДФ АЛ-31Ф китайский аналог WS-10 Taihang (на фото) по-прежнему не может выйти на удовлетворительный уровень качества

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Here is the reality:

ww w.china-defense-mash up.com/this-is-the-real-face-of-taihang-ws-10-turbofan-engine.html

Wait till WS-10 equipped J-10Bs get cranked out like sausages next year...

OMG the AL-WS clone story again. I thought it is now 2011 and this is SDF. Was I wrong?

Tell me my dear russian friends how an engine could be a clone of another and ends up with different number of of compressor and turbine stages.

This thread is amusing, first the joke from SP about WS10A being a AL31 clone, then with people who quote Russian sources about WS10A while it's in fact an American engine with very little Russian input. If AVIC needs any engine help the first choice would be retirees from GE and SNECMA.

hmmwv said:

This thread is amusing, first the joke from SP about WS10A being a AL31 clone, then with people who quote Russian sources about WS10A while it's in fact an American engine with very little Russian input. If AVIC needs any engine help the first choice would be retirees from GE and SNECMA.

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Lethal Shopping Lists
Moo's destination last November was Shenyang Aircraft Corp., which lies a few miles from Taoxian International Airport. It's the site where, in cooperation with Russia, China developed its first homegrown fighter engine, the Lyulka AL-31 turbofan engine. But the Lyulka provides a Pontiac Firebird level of performance compared to the Formula One-worthy engine that Moo was set to deliver. U.S. officials believe that China planned to copy the F-16 engine for its own prototype fighter.

China has managed to "reverse-engineer some of [America's] most modern rifles, cannons and guns and produce them domestically," says Larry Wortzel, chairman of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, which reports to Congress. However, Chinese expertise in engine manufacturing has lagged, according to Wortzel, who spent 25 years working in military intelligence. "This is one of their biggest espionage targets," he says.

"There are characters out there with laundry lists of stuff like this," says Mangione. Moo's list included nuclear missiles and jet engines, and also called for the "urgent procurement" of "2 to 4 sets" of a "Nuclear Submarine (nuclear reactor should be one unit, no noise) including ALL nuclear weapon systems." Acquiring an entire submarine might be a long shot, Mangione says, but "any specs, any photos, any anything they can get is more than they had before."



Read more: How China Steals U.S. Military Secrets - Popular Mechanics



here are the retiree

So what ??? ... and You think that proves the WS-10A being an AL-31-clone !??

Come on ..

So.. when blatant error in your sources are pointed out, your response is to ignore it and post some OTHER source?

Some source that is also riddled with error I might add. Off the top of my head along, the cannon claim is wrong, Chinese tube-artillery is obviously Soviet in main heritage with a healthy dose of Austrian and Dr. Bull mixed in in the more modern systems. China copies a lot of US rifles.. to export them back to the US. It also thinks China is working with Lyulka to develop the Al-31 - and claims it is a generation or two behind the F-16's engine, which is patent nonsense. The F-110 is a fine engine but its main advantage over the AL-31 is in operability and reliability, it is certainly not a formula one compared to a Pontiac. In terms of other relevant parameters the two are very close, of the same class certainly.

I could go on but that level of unprofessional reporting pretty much speaks for itself.

Deino said:

So what ??? ... and You think that proves the WS-10A being an AL-31-clone !??

Come on ..

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It does not prove or disprove anything, it only shows that there are supporters of different theories, if you can get an official source from AVIC proving no Russian input on the WS-10 well that will clear out things.

However it shows you from what sources the article that prompted the opening of this thread comes from.

In order to disprove it you need official sources, otherwise the article despite it is unpopular here, can not be debuked.

1) That's now how things work. You make a claim, you have to back it up. The burden of proof is not on the other party to debunk it. Point of views is no more than opinion. It is pointless to bring up mere opinion and demand solid proof in return.

2) If you actually read your own sources, you'll find for instance that China defense mashup agrees that there is significant Russian input in WS-10. That is not the same thing as being a copy or a clone.

3) I see that you are continuing your steadfast refusal to acknowledge evidence that your own sources are flawed.