Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
That means you’ve never done production work before.
i remember, last week a J-20A was seen with WS-15 engines.
two points -
1. my quote massage, if production halted then some components failed to pass quality review. very common issue
2. WS-15 still in Testing phase with multiple units. means machine is not yet reliable for mass production. again a very common problem. in this case, AECC will gradually increase the production just like WS-20.
i believe, by this year end we might see good number of WS-15s.. let see
Not too sure if a "loss in translation" is occuring here or not, but it sounds like RUMINT concerning supply chain bottlenecks impacting the progress of the J-35A program may be rooted in challenges that are simultaneously impacting deliveries of WS-15 turbofans for newly manufactured J-20A airframes.
lol, we literally have Airbus dedicating vast number of engineers for specifically the problem of scaling production and people here are saying they don't consider scaling problems to be technical problems.
Maybe I phrased my comments poorly, my point was that if the issue is that they're unable to scale up production of WS-15 quickly enough, that's an issue of a different nature than if WS-15 is having problems such a design flaw. Ramping up supply chain is something that can be projected to occur slowly but steadily with a decent degree of confidence. If WS-15 does have design flaws and needs changing (which is what a grounding would suggest), that would entail an indefinite delay that could be quite long. In other words it's the difference between not having WS-15 at all for a while longer vs having them slowly trickle in.
Yeah the key question is if the delays are due to PLAAF wanting every last 5th gen fighter they can get asap and supply chain for WS-15 simply can't keep up or if WS-15 has teething issues that would require delays and changes. Given that LRIP for WS-15 only started fairly recently it is reasonable they can't keep up just yet with 100 airframes a year that J-20 was doing before. So absent further evidence I tend to think that WS-15 is fine design wise they just need time to scale up production.
I take your point but in a sense these are sometimes indistinguishable issues. Production quality failures are sometimes tied to design choices you made that simply didn’t reproduce well once you get to the volume manufacturing part of the process. That’s why there’s a field of production engineering called NPI (new product introduction). In this case my guess is that this specific case is probably just a problem with introducing new suppliers who weren’t ready in some part of their process for the quality and speed of work they have to provide, but without details it’s really hard to say.
There's a special consideration on the WS-15 programme as not just as "another" engine program, but Emei being like a final exam or graduation thesis for the Chinese Aeroengine industry as a whole.
It's completion is in essence the signal that the PRC engine industry has reached maturity, having access to and being able to successfully implement SOTA technology in one of China's traditionally very severe technology bottlenecks, without major derivation or basing from foreign technology like the WS-10(CFM-56 core), or WS-13(RD-33); ie. clean sheet.
The indev CJ-1000A and WS-19 all use technologies and methods from the Emei program, so some observers think of WS-15 as not even a flagship program, but something even bigger than that. It also eats a disproportionately huge amount of funding, relative to the progress and delays it's experienced.(as per I_H8_Y8's reddit post, mentioning PRC engine investments as a whole).
Also,
the project started in the early 1990s, with first run in 2005, and reevaluation/major changes happening in 2018. It's been 20 years since first run, probably 30+ years since the project was laid out --- a lifelong endeavor for some of the engineers and scientists working on it.
Edit: Specifically about the J-35A, it's seen as a mid-tier option to give the PLAAF more mass and flexibility, and to secondarily subsidize the PLANAF's drive for the more spec'd out J-35 proper. The J-20A is the high cost supposed to be high capability side to the mix for the PLAAF.
If the current issue is a problem with suppliers just be grateful that they are getting through such teething problems with the WS-15 and not the CJ-1000. You expand your supplier network with military projects first when you can because by the time the supplier is expected to get certification for civilian projects they’ll have already worked out the wrinkles.
speaking of CMC and Sic Fiber.
We have now a 3rd generation Sic Fiber developed that can have long stable operation at 1800 C. This is should be pretty huge in the production of CMC for aeroengine and gas turbine. It also stated a few other usage areas, but for the sake for this thread. I think these are the biggest implications
We have now a 3rd generation Sic Fiber developed that can have long stable operation at 1800 C. This is should be pretty huge in the production of CMC for aeroengine and gas turbine. It also stated a few other usage areas, but for the sake for this thread. I think these are the biggest implications