Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
These kinds of YouTube videos are filled with commentary from people who don’t know enough to know what they don’t know. You get a lot of made up claims as a result.
by78
General
An utterly idiotic video. The level of stupidity is incomprehensible. Please stop sharing content from that channel or social media in general.
Last edited:
I am interested in RDE tech. From what I have learned watching YouTube videos it seems to be a very fragile technology which no one has mastered yet. The Japanese have tested detonation for a few seconds on a suborbital rocket. I haven’t seen anything from NASA or the Air Force where they are experimenting with a real RDE on a real rocket. My assumption is that it would be much harder to get an RDE working on an aeroplane with just air with an unknown composition as the oxidiser. I thought scientists were still using supercomputers to figure out how to get RDEs to work.
There are articles on SCMP which sound very interesting where they interview some person from a Chinese University and then something gets mentioned that seems to defy the laws of physics and then I think I am being intentionally strung along.
I am beginning to wonder if that original Su34 RDE video is just burning propellant and there is no detonation. If an RDE is not working properly it just defaults to burning fuel like any other combustion engine invented in the last 100 odd years.
If I could see other videos with RDEs on aeroplanes that I could trust then I might change my mind.
I’ve just done a quick search using google on sinodefenceforum.com looking for RDE and I get hardly any hits which tells me that SU34 RDE video needs more validation.
I found an interesting article. Please google translate it yourself.
Basically FB-1 is a small RDE that powered 500kg class UAV.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Thanks for the link Here is the english translation. There is no doubt they already tested this new engine on the model jet If they are able to scale up this design it will be revolutionary with a 25% efficiency improvement. It will allow jet fighters to roam West Pacific at will amazing development
FB-1 detonation engine installation test! Domestic first time: Supersonic drone soars into the sky!
| Submitted by: [ ] on 2023-09-20 19:33 Read 1135 times 3 Likes large print reading |
FB-1 detonation engine installation test: the drone soars into the sky!
Location: A flight test site in northwest China;
Model: Small UAV similar to SU-34;
We don’t have to worry too much about the model. Let’s mainly look at the scale of this drone. From the ratio of the human body to the model, we can see that the length of this drone is about 5 meters, which should be considered a drone. A large-size model aircraft, or a small drone, has an engine not inside the fuselage, but in the belly. 6park.com
6park.com
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
This kind of engine looks very strange. There is a cone on the tail nozzle. This is a common design of high-speed exhaust engines. Generally, the exhaust is around the tail nozzle, and the middle prevents vacuum from forming to reduce turbulence and has the effect of increasing thrust.
The public video shows that several testers pushed the drone onto the runway. It seems that the drone should not be light, otherwise it would not require multiple people to push it. Then the engine started, and flames spewed out from the tail nozzle. As the screams became louder and louder, the drone quickly skidded off the runway for dozens of meters before soaring into the sky. 6park.com
6park.com
According to the description in the video, the engine of this drone is the FB-1 detonation engine independently developed by Thrust Weight Ratio Company, and this test is the first continuous rotating detonation engine unmanned aerial vehicle loading and rolling ignition test in China. This engine is the "Science City·Major Industrial Research Institute No. 1" jointly developed by Thrust and Weight Ratio. The jet-powered unmanned aerial vehicle serves as the loading test platform for the FB-1 detonation engine.
According to reports, the FB-1 detonation engine is a new type of air-breathing detonation engine. It uses kerosene fuel and has zero-speed start and rapid ignition capabilities. The "Science City·Major Industrial Research Institute No. 1" unmanned aerial vehicle is a thrust-to-weight ratio company. A type of jet-type high-speed multi-functional flight platform participated in the development can be used for military target power tests and supersonic flight tests, which means that the FB-1 detonation engine is likely to be used for UAV supersonic tests. 6park.com
What is even more surprising is that it is reported that apart from the necessary moving parts, the FB-1 detonation engine does not have a turbine pressure stage like an ordinary jet engine, but this engine can start smoothly at zero altitude and zero speed. And reach supersonic speed or even hypersonic speed state. Currently, the thrust-to-weight ratio company's independently developed air-breathing continuous rotation detonation engine is in a leading position in domestic commercial aviation.
Rotating detonation engine: no moving parts, so what exactly is it?
The rotating detonation engine is a relatively special type of engine. Common jet engines have multi-stage pressure stage turbines. The airflow is compressed by the high-speed rotating pressure stage and then sent to the combustion chamber. It is mixed with fuel and ignited, and then drives the high-temperature turbine (through After the transmission shaft drives the multi-stage pressure stage to work), the tail nozzle is discharged at high speed to form thrust. 6park.com
The rotating detonation engine does not require this rotating structure at all. This engine uses a special slit ejection aerodynamic mode to introduce the airflow and atomized fuel into an annular combustion chamber to form a mixed fuel mist. After the area is ignited and exploded, this explosion will detonate close to a newly formed mixed fuel mist after diffusion, forming a repeated combustion process in the annular combustion chamber.
Rotating detonation engines: what are the advantages?
The rotating detonation engine is also a jet engine and has a combustion chamber and a tail nozzle like a jet engine. However, these two engines are very different because the principles of the two engines are completely different. The following is a brief description of the two engines. What's the difference:
There are three types of jet engines: centrifugal turbojet, compression-stage turbojet, and turbofan. The difference is that the compression stage modes are different. The former uses centrifugal turbine compression, while the latter uses compressor-stage multi-stage compression, and the turbofan is in front of the compressor stage. An additional fan is added to bypass part of the airflow through the outer duct to the tail nozzle for additional push. 6park.com
The airflow compressed by multi-stage pressure is mixed with fuel before entering the combustion chamber, and then ignited by the flame stabilizer to form a high-temperature expansion airflow. The working pressure of the combustion chamber is less than the intake pressure, the flame combustion is stable, and the pressure is stable, because after "overpressure", it will After the high-temperature turbine performs work, it is discharged from the tail nozzle.
The requirement of this kind of engine is that the combustion in the combustion chamber must be stable, otherwise the engine will surge or even stall. For example, my country's famous sand dune trapped vortex flame stabilizer uses the vortex residence on the back of the stabilizer with a dune structure to form stable combustion. The continuous and stable combustion in the engine combustion chamber plays a huge role.
Rotating detonation engines are not like this at all. The mixing ratio of fuel and air in the combustion chamber of this engine is an explosion ratio. That is to say, when the mixed atomized gas is ignited, what happens is not combustion, but an explosion! This combustion method is very different from the stable combustion methods of turbojet and turbofan: turbojet and turbofan
stable combustion: isobaric combustion; rotating detonation is detonation combustion: approximately isovolumetric combustion;
The pressure of the former is basically constant because there is a self-relief process through the tail nozzle, and due to the existence of the intake pressure, the combustion chamber pressure cannot be greater than the intake pressure, otherwise the intake cannot be sustained and the engine will stall. This is also for The reasons are to increase the engine thrust-to-weight ratio, continuously increase the pressure stage compression ratio and increase the temperature in front of the turbine. 6p
But the explosion method of detonation combustion is different. Even in an open space, the explosion can still reach extremely high pressure. This is because the detonation wave of detonation combustion propagates much higher than the speed of sound, and can generally reach Mach 4~5 or above. , equivalent to the shock wave of the explosion "surrounding" the explosion area, the pressure rises sharply, and the pressure will not decrease until the shock wave spreads.
This kind of pressure is unmatched by isobaric combustion, so the combustion chamber pressure of detonation combustion is very high, but it has a fatal shortcoming. After the detonation combustion spreads, if the secondary detonation cannot keep up or the interval is too long, then The ratio of comprehensive thrust to thrust weight cannot be improved. This problem exists in pulse detonation. It can only be solved by using multiple combustion chambers or multi-tube shared combustion chambers, but the detonation frequency is still not enough. 6park.com
The public video shows that several testers pushed the drone onto the runway. It seems that the drone should not be light, otherwise it would not require multiple people to push it. Then the engine started, and flames spewed out from the tail nozzle. As the screams became louder and louder, the drone quickly skidded off the runway for dozens of meters before soaring into the sky. 6park.com
6park.com
According to the description in the video, the engine of this drone is the FB-1 detonation engine independently developed by Thrust Weight Ratio Company, and this test is the first continuous rotating detonation engine unmanned aerial vehicle loading and rolling ignition test in China. This engine is the "Science City·Major Industrial Research Institute No. 1" jointly developed by Thrust and Weight Ratio. The jet-powered unmanned aerial vehicle serves as the loading test platform for the FB-1 detonation engine.
According to reports, the FB-1 detonation engine is a new type of air-breathing detonation engine. It uses kerosene fuel and has zero-speed start and rapid ignition capabilities. The "Science City·Major Industrial Research Institute No. 1" unmanned aerial vehicle is a thrust-to-weight ratio company. A type of jet-type high-speed multi-functional flight platform participated in the development can be used for military target power tests and supersonic flight tests, which means that the FB-1 detonation engine is likely to be used for UAV supersonic tests. 6park.com
What is even more surprising is that it is reported that apart from the necessary moving parts, the FB-1 detonation engine does not have a turbine pressure stage like an ordinary jet engine, but this engine can start smoothly at zero altitude and zero speed. And reach supersonic speed or even hypersonic speed state. Currently, the thrust-to-weight ratio company's independently developed air-breathing continuous rotation detonation engine is in a leading position in domestic commercial aviation.
Rotating detonation engine: no moving parts, so what exactly is it?
The rotating detonation engine is a relatively special type of engine. Common jet engines have multi-stage pressure stage turbines. The airflow is compressed by the high-speed rotating pressure stage and then sent to the combustion chamber. It is mixed with fuel and ignited, and then drives the high-temperature turbine (through After the transmission shaft drives the multi-stage pressure stage to work), the tail nozzle is discharged at high speed to form thrust. 6park.com
The rotating detonation engine does not require this rotating structure at all. This engine uses a special slit ejection aerodynamic mode to introduce the airflow and atomized fuel into an annular combustion chamber to form a mixed fuel mist. After the area is ignited and exploded, this explosion will detonate close to a newly formed mixed fuel mist after diffusion, forming a repeated combustion process in the annular combustion chamber.
Rotating detonation engines: what are the advantages?
The rotating detonation engine is also a jet engine and has a combustion chamber and a tail nozzle like a jet engine. However, these two engines are very different because the principles of the two engines are completely different. The following is a brief description of the two engines. What's the difference:
There are three types of jet engines: centrifugal turbojet, compression-stage turbojet, and turbofan. The difference is that the compression stage modes are different. The former uses centrifugal turbine compression, while the latter uses compressor-stage multi-stage compression, and the turbofan is in front of the compressor stage. An additional fan is added to bypass part of the airflow through the outer duct to the tail nozzle for additional push. 6park.com
The airflow compressed by multi-stage pressure is mixed with fuel before entering the combustion chamber, and then ignited by the flame stabilizer to form a high-temperature expansion airflow. The working pressure of the combustion chamber is less than the intake pressure, the flame combustion is stable, and the pressure is stable, because after "overpressure", it will After the high-temperature turbine performs work, it is discharged from the tail nozzle.
The requirement of this kind of engine is that the combustion in the combustion chamber must be stable, otherwise the engine will surge or even stall. For example, my country's famous sand dune trapped vortex flame stabilizer uses the vortex residence on the back of the stabilizer with a dune structure to form stable combustion. The continuous and stable combustion in the engine combustion chamber plays a huge role.
Rotating detonation engines are not like this at all. The mixing ratio of fuel and air in the combustion chamber of this engine is an explosion ratio. That is to say, when the mixed atomized gas is ignited, what happens is not combustion, but an explosion! This combustion method is very different from the stable combustion methods of turbojet and turbofan: turbojet and turbofan
stable combustion: isobaric combustion; rotating detonation is detonation combustion: approximately isovolumetric combustion;
The pressure of the former is basically constant because there is a self-relief process through the tail nozzle, and due to the existence of the intake pressure, the combustion chamber pressure cannot be greater than the intake pressure, otherwise the intake cannot be sustained and the engine will stall. This is also for The reasons are to increase the engine thrust-to-weight ratio, continuously increase the pressure stage compression ratio and increase the temperature in front of the turbine. 6p
But the explosion method of detonation combustion is different. Even in an open space, the explosion can still reach extremely high pressure. This is because the detonation wave of detonation combustion propagates much higher than the speed of sound, and can generally reach Mach 4~5 or above. , equivalent to the shock wave of the explosion "surrounding" the explosion area, the pressure rises sharply, and the pressure will not decrease until the shock wave spreads.
This kind of pressure is unmatched by isobaric combustion, so the combustion chamber pressure of detonation combustion is very high, but it has a fatal shortcoming. After the detonation combustion spreads, if the secondary detonation cannot keep up or the interval is too long, then The ratio of comprehensive thrust to thrust weight cannot be improved. This problem exists in pulse detonation. It can only be solved by using multiple combustion chambers or multi-tube shared combustion chambers, but the detonation frequency is still not enough. 6park.com