Chinese Engine Development

KLJ-4 is just KLJ-3 modified for flankers, so the capabilites should be similar. KLJ-3 is suspected to be either slotted array or phased array.

KLJ-3 stats:
For targets, the commonly used phrase is track 15 and engage 6. This is the speculated value by Kanwa ()
Another source is quoted as track 16-20 and engage 6-8 ( and many other places)
There is another source that said track 24 and engage 4.
The most conservative number I have read is track 15 and engage 4.
This makes sense, since KLJ-3 did beat elta-2035 and Zhemchug based on performance

As for range, I think it's all about detection range rather than search range. Although the search range is normally given as 150 or 160 KM.
The common value given for detecting 3m^2 targets are:
100 KM for look up/head on targets and 80KM for look down

J-11B possibly going into full production with WS-10A starting production probably next year.

MIGleader said:

not that much. the rd-93, or the indegedous copy ws-13, is smaller and more fitting than an al-31.

Click to expand...

Dude, the WS-13 is NOT a copy of the RD-93. It's a turboJET for the J-7!
If it was, JF-17 would not be facing engine problems.

Yea China should, how much will it cost extra just for refitting the RD-93? in fact? does the airframe need to be redesigned?

Click to expand...

Yes, if China enlong the body, but that'll off course hamper performance.
The RD-93 has the diameter but a longer length.

The exhaust of the JH-7 looks pretty big to me though.

sumdud said:

Dude, the WS-13 is NOT a copy of the RD-93. It's a turboJET for the J-7!
If it was, JF-17 would not be facing engine problems.

Yes, if China enlong the body, but that'll off course hamper performance.
The RD-93 has the diameter but a longer length.

The exhaust of the JH-7 looks pretty big to me though.

Click to expand...

migleader is right, WS-13A is for jf-17.

sumdud said:

Dude, the WS-13 is NOT a copy of the RD-93. It's a turboJET for the J-7!
If it was, JF-17 would not be facing engine problems.

Yes, if China enlong the body, but that'll off course hamper performance.
The RD-93 has the diameter but a longer length.

The exhaust of the JH-7 looks pretty big to me though.

Click to expand...

the rd-93s had soem problems as we know. but the ws-13 was dewsigned to fix them. the chinese cant sell rd-93 either.

a comparison between WS-10A and AL-31F. More technical comparison.

It's interesting how all the comparison to WS-10 were blacked out.
Anyhow, for AL-31F. It compared differences at different turning rates:
at high turning rate: it's 4.5% better.
at medium turning rate: it's 1% better

All over the Chinese military forums this morning, the avic1 website has officially declared that the large turbofan engine (WS-10A) is successful. Interesting it took another 4 months after the end of the last major test to get it certified.

“太行”航空发动机通过技术定型审查

自主创新结硕果，激情超越谱新篇。我国自行研制的大推力涡轮风扇航空发动机——“太行”航空发动机通过了设计定型审查。这标志着我国在自主研制航空发动机的道路上实现了历史性跨越，在攀登世界科技高峰征程上迈出了新的重大一步。这对于加速我军武器装备的跨越式发展、加强国防现代化建设具有极其重要的意义。

“太行”航空发动机的研制成功，是党中央、国务院、中央军委亲自关怀和总装、国防科工委、空军、海军等上级机关正确领导的结果。亲切的关怀化为无穷的动力，激励着广大参研人员矢志不渝、激情进取，战胜前进道路上的一切困难。

“太行”航空发动机的研制成功，是中国一航大集团战略的集中体现。航空发动机研制是复杂的系统工程。在中国一航“整合、凝聚、创新、卓越”的大集团战略下，充分发挥社会主义制度集中力量办大事的优势，实施了发动机行业的整合。开展了大协作，行业内外通力合作，思想上高度统一，行动上密切配合，工作上相互理解、相互信任、相互支持、同心同德、同舟共济。在型号研制最关键的时刻，集团公司领导多次亲临现场，坐镇指挥，调动集团一切资源，极大地促进了“太行”发动机的研制进程。

“太行”航空发动机的研制成功，是参研单位和参研人员自主创新的非凡壮举。先进的航空发动机是世界公认的现代制造业皇冠上的一颗璀璨的明珠，是一个国家科技工业水平和综合实力的重要标志。“太行”航空发动机作为我国自主创新研制成功的第一台大推力涡轮风扇航空发动机，在研制过程中，参研单位和参研人员坚持走自力更生、自主创新的道路，勇于探索未知领域，勇于突破研制禁区，勇于攀登科技高峰，采用了大量先进设计技术以及上百项新工艺、新材料，一大批先进科研成果填补了国内技术空白或达到国际先进水平。此外，参研单位在中国一航的统一部署下，大力开展运行机制的创新、管理体制的创新和文化建设的创新，有力地促进了型号研制，从而实现了我国在自主研制航空发动机上新的历史性的重大跨越。它的研制成功，凝聚着几代航空人的心血与期盼，是航空战线上几十万名职工汗水与智慧的结晶。

“太行”航空发动机的研制成功，不仅为航空装备提供了一个强有力的动力装置，而且为今后的航空发动机事业提供了一个良好的发展平台。更重要的是，通过发动机的研制培养和造就了一支经验丰富、本领高强、素质过硬、作风顽强的研制队伍。秉承“航空报国、追求第一”的集团理念，我们相信，中国一航人将更进一步同心同德，激情进取，在铸航空利剑、扬中华国威的伟大事业中再立新功，为我国航空工业早日自立于世界航空强者之林做出新的贡献。

Also, I wonder whether or not this year's production will be more than the much talked about 55-60 units. It's suppose to be in mass production this year already.

Is it successful/ready for J-11B or for J-10?? I think most folks have said that there will be more work on WS-10A for J-10. Pakistan is showing interest in J-10 and i think that would be more reason than not to finalize WS-10A version for J-10. WHat do you guys say??

More work will have to be done adapting the WS-10A for the J-10.

The J-10 requires an engine with a gearbox on the bottom. It may be speculated that the original WS-10 may have been designed this way, and so was the J-10 airframe. To fit, the AL-31FN was designed to have the gearbox on the bottom.

But when the improved WS-10A was being designed for the J-11 instead, they would have to reverse the gearbox to the top, like an AL-31F. And so now the WS-10A now have top gearboxes and won't fit the J-10, not unless they redesign the engine to have the gearbox on the bottom. That would mean some more testing.

I don't suppose that the redesign is hard work. It can probably be done in a year's time including some testing. But the level of safety and reliability standards is higher for a single engined plane than a double engined plane as you have no margin for error, so the quality control, reliability, and endurace testing will have to go through one more notch before it can be fully certified for use on the J-10.

Is J-10 with WS-10A more feasible for Pakistan? Well, if the RD-93s are not approved for second export to Pakistan, then the FC-1 project would be in deep trouble. PLAAF is only interested on the FC-1 to help the plane gain export markets, and if it cannot gain export markets because exports of such is affected by Russian approval on the engines, then there is no point, might as well stick to the J-10. So called WS-13 for the FC-1 seems much farther along the route. FC-1 04 still need a battery of tests to go. Working to modify and certify the WS-10A for the J-10 might actually be the easiest path.

I don't think Pakistan will ditch JF-17 and instead get into J-10 for the same role.
J-10 is being looked at for the top notch fighter/strike platform for PAF. It even won't field in huge numbers in this role. JF-17 will still go to around 150-200. IMHO, FC-1 will become a success (egypt,bangladesh,Iran etc).

However what i find interesting is the following aspect.
The fighter looked at by Musharref and co , was it the one that is being inducted in the PLAAF or the one that is supposed to be the version on steriods and which was expected to fly sometime this year?? I find it more probable that Paksitan will go for the topmost performer to fill the role of the elite fighter in it's inventory.

tphuang: "Thanks Heaven and Thanks Earth", that's really a good news. HeHeHe!

But my question is: "设计定型审查" means "certified final design", does that also imply it is "mass reproducible"?

Is that truth that the WS10 prototype was "workable", but couldn't be mass-reproduced due to some material quality control issue?