Chinese Engine Development

Godzilla · Mar 1, 2022

dengyeye said:
It's a small turbofan engine and they famously had to put four of them on the Kawasaki P-1 to get it to fly. There's no way Japan is ahead of China in engine development in 2022.

food for thought. MHI's J class GT's are in the 1600-1700C range for turbine inlet temperature. WS-10 is in the 1500C range.
Japan may not have an engine ahead of China, in terms of individual components such as turbine blades, Japan would be far ahead.

56860 · Mar 1, 2022

sndef888 said:
Think he's saying Japan is still ahead in hard sciences and overall industrial/technology base but behind in engines because they don't have proper development programmes

I think it's mostly true. Up until recently Japan was still having quite remarkable amounts of breakthroughs and scientific development for a country of their size. Though China is quickly catching up

I find this hard to believe considering Japan hasn't had the same impetus to indigenously secure their supply chain. They can always just rely on western imports (subject to remaining a chained dog of US), whereas for China tech development is literally the difference between life or death.

In the frontier technologies laid out in MIC 2025, I can only think of two where Japan is unquestionably ahead: lithography and robotics (only because Japanese companies still command a majority of robot exports).

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

symplectic · Mar 1, 2022

Godzilla said:
food for thought. MHI's J class GT's are in the 1600-1700C range for turbine inlet temperature. WS-10 is in the 1500C range.
Japan may not have an engine ahead of China, in terms of individual components such as turbine blades, Japan would be far ahead.

Well if we talk about industrial Gas Turbine, I will definitely agree that Japan is far ahead, not just individual components. But I doubt to what degree this could be related to a turbofan, even ship GT. Japan's warships like Atago and Kingo are using LM2500 from GE whereas China's warships like 052D/055 use domestically produced GTs.

Anyway, I agree that Japan could be better if it's not restrained. But the only question is to what degree.

Philister · Mar 1, 2022

symplectic said:
not claiming Japan is ahead of China in turbofan development. Just point out that Japan does have some accumulation. Actually Japan has nothing to match WS-10, WS-13, or WS-20. Japan is also developing a new generation XF9 low-bypass engine which should match WS-15, but no idea when it can be done.

XF-9 doesn’t count ,WS-15 doesn’t count too , so is WS-6, when we are talking about capability, lab stuff doesn’t count, usable products count.
And ,development of XF-9 doesn’t look well , they are working with brits now, I’m not saying it’s necessarily screwed, but collaboration at this phase isn’t a good sign.
Japan is overall better in material ,but design ? Big question mark here.

gelgoog · Mar 1, 2022

Godzilla said:
food for thought. MHI's J class GT's are in the 1600-1700C range for turbine inlet temperature. WS-10 is in the 1500C range.
Japan may not have an engine ahead of China, in terms of individual components such as turbine blades, Japan would be far ahead.

You can't compare a stationary power plant with one for an airplane. One is water cooled, and the other is air cooled.

sunnymaxi · Mar 1, 2022

dengyeye said:
I find this hard to believe considering Japan hasn't had the same impetus to indigenously secure their supply chain. They can always just rely on western imports (subject to remaining a chained dog of US), whereas for China tech development is literally the difference between life or death.

In the frontier technologies laid out in MIC 2025, I can only think of two where Japan is unquestionably ahead: lithography and robotics (only because Japanese companies still command a majority of robot exports).

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

A new member & just wanted to join this forum to clarify some misconceptions , i have read many massages. Sorry to say this, but very few people have idea how much current China is advance in science & Technology. China is basically the global leader in 4th industrial Revolution(5G , 6G , Ai , Quantum , Fusion , EV , Green Tech). current R&D spending reaches $441 Billion. will increase 8% every year by 2025.

By the end of This year SMEE(Shanghai Semi) will deliver first domestically build DUV Lithography. Japan this advantage gone too. more surprises coming soon in EUV(advance lithography) but can't tell here. only time will tell

For Robotics, they present the master plan to become the Global leader by 2024-25.

China's MIIT, the country's Robot industry reported revenue of over RMB 100 Billion for the first time in 2020. From 2015 to 2020, the output of industrial robots surged from 72,000 sets to 212,000 sets, with an average annual growth of 31%.

First the first time, China has replaced the US as the most attractive destination in the world for publishing scientists. this is just beginning.

MortyandRick · Mar 1, 2022

sunnymaxi said:
By the end of This year SMEE(Shanghai Semi) will deliver first domestically build DUV Lithography.

We've heard about this a lot but initially it was end of 2021, now it's the end of 2022? And also there was indication that it failed as well?
Did want to derail this thread, just clarification.

LCR34 · Mar 1, 2022

sunnymaxi said:
A new member & just wanted to join this forum to clarify some misconceptions , i have read many massages. Sorry to say this, but very few people have idea how much current China is advance in science & Technology. China is basically the global leader in 4th industrial Revolution(5G , 6G , Ai , Quantum , Fusion , EV , Green Tech). current R&D spending reaches $441 Billion. will increase 8% every year by 2025.

By the end of This year SMEE(Shanghai Semi) will deliver first domestically build DUV Lithography. Japan this advantage gone too. more surprises coming soon in EUV(advance lithography) but can't tell here. only time will tell

For Robotics, they present the master plan to become the Global leader by 2024-25.

China's MIIT, the country's Robot industry reported revenue of over RMB 100 Billion for the first time in 2020. From 2015 to 2020, the output of industrial robots surged from 72,000 sets to 212,000 sets, with an average annual growth of 31%.

First the first time, China has replaced the US as the most attractive destination in the world for publishing scientists. this is just beginning. View attachment 84142

This is an engine thread eh...

sunnymaxi · Mar 1, 2022

LCR34 said:
This is an engine thread eh...

Yeah my bad. sorry

latenlazy · Mar 1, 2022

sunnymaxi said:
A new member & just wanted to join this forum to clarify some misconceptions , i have read many massages. Sorry to say this, but very few people have idea how much current China is advance in science & Technology. China is basically the global leader in 4th industrial Revolution(5G , 6G , Ai , Quantum , Fusion , EV , Green Tech). current R&D spending reaches $441 Billion. will increase 8% every year by 2025.

By the end of This year SMEE(Shanghai Semi) will deliver first domestically build DUV Lithography. Japan this advantage gone too. more surprises coming soon in EUV(advance lithography) but can't tell here. only time will tell

For Robotics, they present the master plan to become the Global leader by 2024-25.

China's MIIT, the country's Robot industry reported revenue of over RMB 100 Billion for the first time in 2020. From 2015 to 2020, the output of industrial robots surged from 72,000 sets to 212,000 sets, with an average annual growth of 31%.

First the first time, China has replaced the US as the most attractive destination in the world for publishing scientists. this is just beginning. View attachment 84142

Sir this is a Wendy’s.

Chinese Engine Development

Godzilla

Junior Member

56860

Senior Member

symplectic

New Member

Philister

Junior Member

gelgoog

Lieutenant General

sunnymaxi

Major

MortyandRick

Senior Member

LCR34

Junior Member

sunnymaxi

Major

latenlazy

Brigadier