Chinese Engine Development

Blitzo

Blitzo

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challenge said:
WS-15 = taishan engine?
last year zhuhai airshow,brochure (
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) report 4th gen. jet engine is currently under developed.and among small model being displayed was 95000 kg.TF engine .
back in 2001.kanwa and top81.com claim 4th gen.fighter resemble MIG-29 in size and weight rather than F-22
Click to expand...
That engine could be possibly for China's "F-35"?

I'm pretty sure the WS-15 isn't this 9500 kg thrust engine, we've heard it being the 16000 kg engine for too long to suddenly have it changed I think. Unless the developers come out and proclaim that it isn't 16000 kg thrust, then I believe it is still the same.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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Ok I've been jumping through quite a few pages of this thread, looking for any talk about the WS-10A's engine thrust and haven't found any.
So does anyone know what kind of thrust we can expect from the WS-10A? I ask because I read the Defense Industry Daily article about Pakistan buying J-10's and that quoted Sinodefence.com in saying that:

"The WS-10A is slightly larger than the AL-31F in size. The engine is reportedly rated at 73.5kN (7,495kg, 16,523lb) dry and 110kN (11,217kg, 24,729 lb) with afterburning, which may result in slightly reduced aerodynamic performance in the WS-10A-equipped J-10."
^ is this true? Because I've come across wikipedia saying it has a 13200kg afterburning thrust (but of course the reliability of wiki comes into question as always, but I don't trust Sinodefence.com in PLA hardware statistics much either).

Please and Thank you! :)
 
Baibar of Jalat

Baibar of Jalat

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Bltizo said:
Ok I've been jumping through quite a few pages of this thread, looking for any talk about the WS-10A's engine thrust and haven't found any.
So does anyone know what kind of thrust we can expect from the WS-10A? I ask because I read the Defense Industry Daily article about Pakistan buying J-10's and that quoted Sinodefence.com in saying that:

"The WS-10A is slightly larger than the AL-31F in size. The engine is reportedly rated at 73.5kN (7,495kg, 16,523lb) dry and 110kN (11,217kg, 24,729 lb) with afterburning, which may result in slightly reduced aerodynamic performance in the WS-10A-equipped J-10."
^ is this true? Because I've come across wikipedia saying it has a 13200kg afterburning thrust (but of course the reliability of wiki comes into question as always, but I don't trust Sinodefence.com in PLA hardware statistics much either).


Please and Thank you! :)
Click to expand...

I believe that sinodefence piece of info is about 3-4 years old.

I am confused with WS 10A and FSW 10. I hear they are in full production but suffering from reliability issues. What is the status?
 
M

maya

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RedMercury said:
Perhaps part of the answer is the name. Note it is not WS-10, but FWS-10. I wonder what the F stands for.
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"F" stands for Fadongji(engine in Chinese Phonetic Alphabet/Pinyin ). the FWS-10 is an official designation.

Baibar of Jalat said:
I am confused with WS 10A and FSW 10. I hear they are in full production but suffering from reliability issues. What is the status?
Click to expand...
10A or FWS-10A is designed to power J-10.

As regards reliability issues, as far as i know ,most of early problems (especially blades fatigue failure) have been overcome by improvements in materials ,manufacturing process,QC.
wait to see field service results...
 
Last edited:
M

maya

New Member
challenge said:
WS-15 = taishan engine?
last year zhuhai airshow,brochure (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) report 4th gen. jet engine is currently under developed.and among small model being displayed was 95000 kg.TF engine .
back in 2001.kanwa and top81.com claim 4th gen.fighter resemble MIG-29 in size and weight rather than F-22
Click to expand...

FWS-15's performance is in the 150kN thrust class with afterburner.

maya said:
9500kgf thrust class turbofan
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Click to expand...

maya said:
I think it's a derivative engine of the WS-13(Taishan).
WS-12 program was terminated in 1999 due to lack of funding. this engine was derived from a base core having a corrected flow of about 15kg/s .

the picture below is displaying a series of core engines with the inlet corrected airflows in the range of 5kg/s to 30kg/s class.
left to right:
5kg/s(WS-500...),15kg/s(12A core),20kg/s(WS-13),30kg/s(T/W ratio~10 FWS-15)
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Click to expand...
 
tphuang

tphuang

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found this through Chinese bbs
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30 中国航空工业第一集团公司一七〇厂FWS10发动机扩大生产能力建设项目 黔环评估纲〔2009〕139号 贵州省环境科学研究设计院 中国航空工业第一集团公司一七〇厂 贵阳市

One of the projects in Guizhou province that will affect the environment is the expansion project for the production of FWS-10. And this is taking place in Guiyang. I'm not sure if it's saying that Guiyang produces parts for FWS-10, so as the rate of FWS-10 goes up, Guiyang needs to ramp up production of the parts or that they are creating a new production line in Guiyang.
 
M

maya

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tphuang said:
found this through Chinese bbs
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30 中国航空工业第一集团公司一七〇厂FWS10发动机扩大生产能力建设项目 黔环评估纲〔2009〕139号 贵州省环境科学研究设计院 中国航空工业第一集团公司一七〇厂 贵阳市

One of the projects in Guizhou province that will affect the environment is the expansion project for the production of FWS-10. And this is taking place in Guiyang. I'm not sure if it's saying that Guiyang produces parts for FWS-10, so as the rate of FWS-10 goes up, Guiyang needs to ramp up production of the parts or that they are creating a new production line in Guiyang.
Click to expand...

No.170 factory : GUIZHOU XINYI MACHINERY FACTORY
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Aeronautic Products

Xinyi Machinery Factory is the sole factory specialized in manufacturing aeronautical engine blades and vanes under AVIC.

　* Turbine blades and turbofan engine blades, structural precision castings

　* Main customers: Liyang Co., Liming Co., Southern Power Machinery Co., Jincheng Co., Lanxiang Co., Shengyang Aeronautic Engine Institute, Chengdu Aeronautic Engine Institute, etc.
 
M

maya

New Member
Lion said:
Can I say one thing? The FSW-10 exhuast blade may look quite similiar to AL-31F if fitted on J-10A or J-11B... While WS-10A on Zuhuai 2008 air show looks different and can be distinguish easily if fitted.
Click to expand...

installation of FWS-10/10A requires a set of flexible petals ...

maya said:
the 606 institute incorporated many features of D30-F6 and AL-31F into the design of domestic fully adjustable nozzle, such as active/independent control of the subsonic flow petals by means of 18 hydraulic cylinders and aerodynamic control of the supersonic flow petals;,similar to AL-31F ,installation of FWS-10/10A requires a set of flexible petals (maybe shroud) to ensure the smooth transition from nacelle to nozzle.
comparison between FWS-10A and D30-F6
[qimg]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0902/27_77564_1bbd7170b73b764.jpg[/qimg]

AL-31F flexible petals
[qimg]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0902/27_77564_97e1b920526187c.jpg[/qimg]

FWS-10A nozzle close-up: mounting ring for flexible petals ,hydraulic cylinders , outer petals
[qimg]http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_0811/27_40249_62639cd1b72df0f.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...
 
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