Chinese Engine Development

Inst

Captain
Exactly, so "Gongke101" had no business claiming that no news = good news. We'll have to wait and see.

No, he didn't claim that there was no news about the WS-15, just that there was no bad news. Even if the amount of good news regarding the WS-15 is rather small, it should outweigh the bad news concerning the WS-15.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
So let me see if I have this right.

First ws10 (without the "a") tested during second half of 1990s. Cobbled together with a cfm56 core. Thrust up to 110 kn? Never got into serial production.

Ws10A made after salyut's input. (Still, as all ws10, with cfm56 like core) Entered service in 2007 or so, but took a few more years to mature. Thrust up to 125 kn?

Ws10b Entered service around 2013 or so. Possible thrust up to 132 kn. Possible similar tech solutions as with salyut's al31m ( that is not to say engine is based on it!)

Ws10c testing in 2018 on j20. May enter service by 2020 or so? Thrust rating around 137 kn or so. May use tech solutions as developed by salyut for al31m2. (Which may also be used on al31fn series 3, as used on j10c)

There may be additional subvariants as well, like ones seen on select few j10 and j-15. But are probably same rating class, just with different parts more suitable for single engine fighters and/or maritime environment.
 

jobjed

Captain
So let me see if I have this right.

First ws10 (without the "a") tested during second half of 1990s. Cobbled together with a cfm56 core. Thrust up to 110 kn? Never got into serial production.

Ws10A made after salyut's input. (Still, as all ws10, with cfm56 like core) Entered service in 2007 or so, but took a few more years to mature. Thrust up to 125 kn?

Ws10b Entered service around 2013 or so. Possible thrust up to 132 kn. Possible similar tech solutions as with salyut's al31m ( that is not to say engine is based on it!)

Ws10c testing in 2018 on j20. May enter service by 2020 or so? Thrust rating around 137 kn or so. May use tech solutions as developed by salyut for al31m2. (Which may also be used on al31fn series 3, as used on j10c)

There may be additional subvariants as well, like ones seen on select few j10 and j-15. But are probably same rating class, just with different parts more suitable for single engine fighters and/or maritime environment.
You're gonna have to specify whether it's the pre-2016 convention you're using or the post-2016 convention.
 

yt19967

New Member
Registered Member
So let me see if I have this right.

First ws10 (without the "a") tested during second half of 1990s. Cobbled together with a cfm56 core. Thrust up to 110 kn? Never got into serial production.

Ws10A made after salyut's input. (Still, as all ws10, with cfm56 like core) Entered service in 2007 or so, but took a few more years to mature. Thrust up to 125 kn?

Ws10b Entered service around 2013 or so. Possible thrust up to 132 kn. Possible similar tech solutions as with salyut's al31m ( that is not to say engine is based on it!)

Ws10c testing in 2018 on j20. May enter service by 2020 or so? Thrust rating around 137 kn or so. May use tech solutions as developed by salyut for al31m2. (Which may also be used on al31fn series 3, as used on j10c)

There may be additional subvariants as well, like ones seen on select few j10 and j-15. But are probably same rating class, just with different parts more suitable for single engine fighters and/or maritime environment.

Not exactly.

Basic Tai Hang series: arround 12.5T(designed 13.2T originally)
WS10: for J11B/BS, J16(first batch)
WS10A: for J10A(only one spotted)
WS10H: for J15(extra thrust)

Enhanced Tai Hang series: arround 13.5T, with FADEC
WS10B: for J10B/C(two spotted)
WS10B3: TVC nozzle on J10C(one spotted)
WS10C: for J20(also called WS10B?)
WS10D: for J16(later batches),(also called WS10B?).


Future:
WS10IPE with TVC nozzle, over 14T, being tested.
 

jobjed

Captain
I guess that would be post 2016, since ws10c refers to engine j20 is testing?

Use the reply function. It works now.

The scheme you're proposing is not post-2016 because you labelled the WS-10B as being in service. Pre-2016, WS-10Bs and its subvariants were the ones we believe were installed on J-16s and J-10Bs. Now it's known that J-16s have WS-10Ds, which are closely related to the WS-10B, which are single-engine fighter only and have not yet entered service.

WS-10C designation is a mystery for now. No credible insiders have commented on that designation but I think they're the ones installed on J-11Bs, lacking FADEC with only 12.5t of thrust and have been superseded by WS-10Ds.
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
Not exactly.

Basic Tai Hang series: arround 12.5T(designed 13.2T originally)
WS10: for J11B/BS, J16(first batch)
WS10A: for J10A(only one spotted)
WS10H: for J15(extra thrust)

Enhanced Tai Hang series: arround 13.5T, with FADEC
WS10B: for J10B/C(two spotted)
WS10B3: TVC nozzle on J10C(one spotted)
WS10C: for J20(also called WS10B?)
WS10D: for J16(later batches),(also called WS10B?).


Future:
WS10IPE with TVC nozzle, over 14T, being tested.

All these names seem very specific yet there are very few actual sources for any info on engine variants. Are those names sourced from somewhere or are they just forum hearsay thrown around by various big shrimps?

What official data we have is from Zhuhai show, with Taihang family having 120 to 140 kgf thrust, meaning from 117 to 137 kn of thrust. Could you, at least very roughly, give each one of those variants you listed an approximate thrust value? Which one is the one with 117 and which is the one with 137 kn of thrust?

Use the reply function. It works now.

The scheme you're proposing is not post-2016 because you labelled the WS-10B as being in service. Pre-2016, WS-10Bs and its subvariants were the ones we believe were installed on J-16s and J-10Bs. Now it's known that J-16s have WS-10Ds, which are closely related to the WS-10B, which are single-engine fighter only and have not yet entered service.

WS-10C designation is a mystery for now. No credible insiders have commented on that designation but I think they're the ones installed on J-11Bs, lacking FADEC with only 12.5t of thrust and have been superseded by WS-10Ds.

Okay, is what I wrote before than the old, pre-2016 scheme? How did that naming scheme go in detail?


What designations exist for the following engines:

1) Initial WS10 variant that officially kicked off development in 1989, had some bench tests in early 1990s and possibly flew in late 1990s? It was planned to be used on J-10, but the performance was lackluster and that variant never got into serial production. Allegedly it's also the one which may have different number of vanes visible from later variants.

2) WS10 variant that was seen on initial J-11B, from 2009 onward.

3) WS10 variant with a longer nozzle, seen on J-11B from 2013 onward.

Also, are any rumors known about thrust levels for any of these three variants?
 

Strategic Analyst

New Member
Registered Member
Perhaps this is interesting on the single crystal turbine blade subject.

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, March 2018, Pages 345-352

Recent advances of rhenium separation and enrichment in China: Industrial processes and laboratory trials
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The details of varied separation methods used either in laboratories or factories, such as ion-exchange, solvent extraction, separation utilizing extractive resins, liquid membrane, or novel materials, etc., were elaborated.

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