Chinese Engine Development

Figaro

Figaro

Senior Member
Registered Member
SinoSoldier said:
A few sources close to the engine project (or so they claim) disclosed the following to SCMP:
  • There remains critical issues stemming from an accident in 2015 involving WS-15
  • These "issues" have not been resolved
  • A WS-15 engine rigged for ground tests exploded in 2015, but nobody was injured
  • Sources claim that the J-20 currently uses WS-10B
  • Explosion (confirmed by two separate sources) was likely caused by quality-control issues with its single-crystal turbine blades
  • While Chinese engineers were able to develop single-crystal turbine blades, they have not been able to apply it to a mass-produced engine version
  • Fixing these issues will take a lot of time
  • J-20 might later switch to the WS-10IPE until the WS-15 can be developed
  • The PLAAF rushed J-20 into service after hearing about the JMSDF topping out its Izumo-class LHAs for F-35B use
My commentary:

It seems that it will be a long time until the J-20 can reach the kinematic performance of the F-22 and Su-57; the USAF and RuAF would maintain considerable lead in terms of the deployment of 5th generation fighters for now, and the gap will only grow once they introduce newer subsystems onto their existing airframes. One possible solution would be for the PLAAF to import additional Su-35s and salvage their engines for use, or allocate some funds into the FC-31 + WS-19 projects as a temporary stop-gap.

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Some extremely questionable quotes from the story ...
However, the thrust-to-weight ratio of the original WS-10 engine was only 7.5, while that of the WS-10B tops out at about nine.
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Chinese technicians are able to produce cutting-edge-quality single-crystal turbine blades when concentrating on a specific single item,” the second military source said. “But they’ve still failed to turn the advanced technology into a standard product for mass production. It’s a bottleneck problem that needs more time to overcome after countless experiments and tests, based on Western experiences.
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China Central Television boasted last year that the performance of the WS-15 had matched that of the F119, with a documentary aired in May claiming the WS-15 engines would be widely used in the J-20 by 2020.
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China’s WS-15 project started in the 1990s, with the first prototype delivered in 2004 and the first successful ground-running test staged in 2015, Antony Wong Dong, a Macau-based military observer, said.
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Andrei Chang :eek::eek::eek:, editor-in-chief of Canadian-based Kanwa Asian Defence, said the J-20 might need at least eight years to improve its engine performance,
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Once again, it appears that Minnie Chan and SCMP have lost all credibility. Also, what's the deal with un-named sources? Does one really think "insiders close to the Chinese military" would be so forthcoming in talking to a Hong Kong newspaper?
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Figaro said:
Some extremely questionable quotes from the story ...





Once again, it appears that Minnie Chan and SCMP have lost all credibility. Also, what's the deal with un-named sources? Does one really think "insiders close to the Chinese military" would be so forthcoming in talking to a Hong Kong newspaper?
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hehe, I never know if SCMP ever had any credibility on this matter, or any matters. For a moment, it talks about "China is going to dry the Indians up", then "China's trouble in making things is huge". Full of sensational non-sense.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tabloid garbage from HK. Why would PLAAF buy more su-35 just to salvage the engines and use them on J-20s? You know they can just buy the engines directly right? It's just a matter of a premium price but to buy entire fighters just for the engines and leaving the rest collecting dust is dumber than spending more just to get the engines if it really was necessary. How would RuAF have more 5th gen experience? LOL Su-57 isn't even 5th gen to many people. It totally lacks the stealth component. Plus they haven't even inducted it yet. Their Izd 30 is also being tested at the moment as well, albeit likely more advanced testing stage than WS-15.
 
I

Inst

Captain
SCMP is claiming a scoop on the WS-15 exploding in 2015. It is not impossible: the WS-15 is now expected closer to the 2022 timeframe, as opposed to the 2019. So, as usual, we need more corroboration.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Inst said:
SCMP is claiming a scoop on the WS-15 exploding in 2015. It is not impossible: the WS-15 is now expected closer to the 2022 timeframe, as opposed to the 2019. So, as usual, we need more corroboration.
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One does not simply recover from a prototype engine explosion in just 3 years. A simple replacement of a solitary part would take years, not to mention a potential change in design (which would necessitate the restart of the entire design->demonstrator->prototype->LRIP->production process).
 
vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
SinoSoldier said:
One does not simply recover from a prototype engine explosion in just 3 years. A simple replacement of a solitary part would take years, not to mention a potential change in design (which would necessitate the restart of the entire design->demonstrator->prototype->LRIP->production process).
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Why redesign is needed if the cause is manufacuring defect in the fan blade?
 
Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
Wouldn't be surprised is there was some accident during WS-15 testing. That is to be expected. It is part of the learning curve. I guess 2025 is realistic for WS-15 powered J-20 to enter service?
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Hyperwarp said:
Wouldn't be surprised is there was some accident during WS-15 testing. That is to be expected. It is part of the learning curve. I guess 2025 is realistic for WS-15 powered J-20 to enter service?
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Except the reporter in this case has proven to be pretty unreliable in prior stories and some of the details around the reporting seem a little suspect.
 
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