Chinese Engine Development

Bltizo said:

I was under the impression that WS-15 was already tested in a simulate high altitude facility (obviously ground based), meaning it should have technically already been on a ground based testbed? Or was that for the core only or something, or is the ground based testbed for Stage C a different sort of testbed?

And ouch, breaking a shaft during such an advanced stage of testing is nasty. Do we know if the WS-20 that broke would've been the same engine they've been testing for a while on the Il-76 testbed or if they've been testing something like LRIP equivalents of new WS-20s on the Il-76 testbed? (i.e.: whether the broken shaft is reflective of manufacturing defect at the prototype stage vs manufacturing defect due to early manufacturing stage)

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latenlazy said:

I don't think these leaks are fake, but I would caution that when the information first crosses a source is an important consideration for how relevant and accurate it is. What gives the information its credibility isn't just who it's from or when source leaks, but when the source picks up the information. If you hear something in 2015 and then pass it along in 2017, that piece of information was true of 2015 but may not be of 2017. I'm not saying this is actually the case, but it's important to keep in mind.

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Bltizo said:

Absolutely, and natural skepticism to all rumours of course.

That said, in this case if the insider is making some time sensitive statements (like the WS-20 in the Il-76 test bed last year having issues), along with some other time sensitive claims, I would be willing to give it some consideration given the sheer audacity of the claim itself.

Though tbh I'm more confused about the WS-15 situation than anything, and what "Stage C" means exactly compared to previous stages (A and B I assume), and what sort of ground based test rig it actually entails.

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latenlazy said:

How chronologically scattered the bits of information that we have some confirmation for is what brought to mind that note of caution. As a secondary source themself, the leaker is an aggregator, and their information is always going to be on a "last I heard" basis. That's one way (though not necessarily the correct way) to reconcile their claims about the WS-15 with others.

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Bltizo said:

That is a risk we take with all leakers and insiders, and we calibrate our skepticism based on their track record.

So I see no reason to be exceptionally skeptical about this guy's time sensitive claims if he really does have a good track record, because it isn't like we haven't had time sensitive or time specific claims from insiders before that we have taken seriously.

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Stealth fighter soon powered by local engines
China Daily, March 13, 2017

A domestically developed engine will soon power the nation's latest stealth fighter jet, according to a senior scientist working for Aero Engine Corp of China.

"It will not take a long time for our fifth-generation combat plane to have China-made engines," said Chen Xiangbao, vice-president of the AECC Beijing Institute of Aeronautical Materials. Chen, also a member of the Chinese Academy of Engineering, was referring to the J-20 stealth fighter.

"The engine's development is proceeding well. We also have begun to design a next-generation aviation engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio that is much higher than that of current types," he said. Thrust-to-weight ratio is considered the top indicator of an aviation engine's capability.

Chen, who is a member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference National Committee, spoke to China Daily on the sidelines of the political advisory body's annual session.

The People's Liberation Army Air Force recently confirmed, without elaborating, that the J-20 has been put into active service. Aviation industry observers said the plane is still equipped with Russian-made engines due to the lack of a suitable domestically developed engine.

Chen said Chinese scientists and engineers are striving to catch up to the world's top players in terms of research and development into cutting-edge aviation engines, but the country still has a long way to go before it can develop and produce world-class engines, Chen said.

"For instance, we are able to develop the two most important components in an advanced engine — the single crystal superalloy turbine blades and powder metallurgy superalloy turbine disks — but in mass production, the products' quality is not very satisfactory," he said. It is a matter of time and persistence to make reliable engines, he said.

"The road to success is filled with setbacks and failures. Each of the world's engine powers has walked this road," Chen added.

Yin Zeyong, head of AECC's science and technology commission, previously said that a good engine is the result of not only good design but also time-consuming experiments and tests.

Despite China's tremendous achievements in science, technology and manufacturing industries over the past several decades, aircraft engine-making remains one of the few fields in which the country still lags behind top players like the United States and Russia. Because of the sophistication of advanced aircraft engines, such as the afterburning turbofan engine, which drives the US Lockheed Martin F-22 and Russia's Sukhoi Su-35, only the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council have the technical wherewithal to develop and produce them.

Tang Changhong, chief designer of China's Y-20 strategic transport plane and a member of the CPPCC National Committee, told West China City Daily that the Y-20 will be equipped with indigenously developed engines around 2018 or 2019.

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Dolcevita said:

WS-15 is having problems with mass production. But this too shall pass.

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Dolcevita said:

WS-15 is having problems with mass production. But this too shall pass.

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We also have begun to design a next-generation aviation engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio that is much higher than that of current types," he said. Thrust-to-weight ratio is considered the top indicator of an aviation engine's capability.

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Dolcevita said:

WS-15 is having problems with mass production. But this too shall pass.

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That quote is important to me because it shows how the Chinese engine production are developing to the point that it is moving into the next generation of engine design.

Like I said, It's all about the program.

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tphuang said:

That's talking about WS-10 series. WS-10B probably just started mass production. WS-15 is quite a bit away still from design certification.


I'm not sure why that is important to you, since an engine maker should always be developing a new generation while producing the current generation.

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