Hmmm, it might be related to the rumours that SAC is also developing an F119-class engine based on an enlarged WS-10 core.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Hmmm, it might be related to the rumours that SAC is also developing an F119-class engine based on an enlarged WS-10 core.
Equation
Lieutenant General
And THE PROGRAM keeps on beating (borrow phrase from Jeff Head). Where are all my doubters and naysayers at?
I am not sure we can interpret his text as saying the other engine having tvc.
first the text says there are three programmes in 150 kn class being developed, not saying if they're related to j-20.
then the text says a tvc system was shown at zhuhai, allegedly dedicated for j20, but NOT designed for ws-15.
Then the text says ws-15 programme itself is split into two - with one subprograme going on more or less as it is (but using more modern materials? So again at least a little bit of redesign?) and the other subprogramme is allegedly redesigning the core.
If true, it would seem j20 will have many engines through its life. first 5-10 years flying with al31 variant, then another decade or so with initial ws15, then the rest of the life with the redesigned ws15?
first the text says there are three programmes in 150 kn class being developed, not saying if they're related to j-20.
then the text says a tvc system was shown at zhuhai, allegedly dedicated for j20, but NOT designed for ws-15.
Then the text says ws-15 programme itself is split into two - with one subprograme going on more or less as it is (but using more modern materials? So again at least a little bit of redesign?) and the other subprogramme is allegedly redesigning the core.
If true, it would seem j20 will have many engines through its life. first 5-10 years flying with al31 variant, then another decade or so with initial ws15, then the rest of the life with the redesigned ws15?
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
A. man, this really puts things together. Deino posted this new Y-20 frame in the Transport thread and shows it with 4 of the type of pylons seen in your photo supporting the WS-20 on the Ilyushin.
My guess is an improved WS-15 with a revised core won't take nearly as long to put into production as the original WS-15. At some point the long timelines we've become used to for engine development compresses as China becomes more proficient with gas turbine technologies and as they validate new technologies and techniques for engines through parallel rather than sequential development. If anything, I suspect half the reason they may be pursuing a revised WS-15 core is to help develop and mature technologies for a 15 t:w engine. They can probably afford to do this because the WS-15 has already completed the core testing and design phases and is, I imagine, pretty far along in the inspection process. For these reasons I would not be surprised if we see the first WS-15 have a relatively short production life (In part because I imagine the experience collected from the development of the first WS-15 core will help streamline their process for the revision).
Hot bulb engines are also called semi-diesels because they achieve ignition by directing a fuel jet at an not-cooled part of the combustion chamber wall instead of by using a high combustion chamber pressure to ignite the fuel. That lower combustion ratio means a higher fuel consumption which makes such an engine less suited for use in drones than diesels because of the fuel consumption, less than gasoline engines because of weight. So "hot bulb" is a translation mistake.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Here is the official Safran statement on their website. WZ16 aka Ardiden 3C is one powerfull turboshat rated at 1600-2000 shp easily double or triple WZ 8 that power Z9(700-800 Shp) Finally China has a powerful engine that exceed even Pratt and Whitney Canada PTC6C-67B(1250 sHP) that was initially intended to power Z10.But prevented from exported to China. Pratt eat your heart out! As I said this engine represent a breakthrough and significant step in advancement of Turboshaft engine in China. If it retrofit into Z10 it will finally release the full potential of the beast
China’s AC352 completes first flight with WZ16 engine
20 December 2016, Harbin
The first flight of the Avicopter AC352, powered with WZ16 engine, took place today in Harbin. The AC352 is a new seven-ton, twin-engine, multi-purpose rotorcraft jointly developed by Avicopter and Airbus Helicopters. The WZ16 met all the performance targets set for this maiden flight. Known in the west as the Ardiden 3C, the engine has been jointly developed by Safran Helicopter Engines, CAPI and Dongan, parts of the new Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) consortium, in a partnership for both development and production.
The WZ16 is a new-generation turboshaft in the 1,500 to 2,000 shp power class. It features a remarkably compact modular architecture, a best in class power to weight ratio with a low cost-of-ownership. Compared to the competition, it offers a 10 % lower fuel consumption.
"Such milestone achieved is the result of closer cooperation between both sides. Building on this, in the future, we will continue our cooperation toward the goal of engine certification at an early date" said Mr Qin Yuchun, President of AECC Dongan."
Commented Safran Helicopter Engines EVP Programs, Cyrille Poetsch, "this flight both secures the AC352 development schedule and marks a major milestone in our partnership with China's aerospace industry. Through this program Safran demonstrates its ability to successfully conduct new-generation engine design as part of an international partnership. This is also a significant step for Avicopter. Since its establishment in 1956, it has grown to become a major rotorcraft manufacturer. We are proud to be aboard their new-generation AC352 and wish them a happy 60th anniversary".
WZ16 will be the first helicopter engine to be certified in parallel, both in China by CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) and in Europe under Ardiden 3C designation, by EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) under the Ardiden 3C designation. The EASA certification for the Ardiden 3C is expected by end of 2017, and the CAAC certification for the WZ16 in 2018.
With over 500 engines in operation, China represents a strategic market for Safran Helicopter Engines. One of every two Chinese-registered helicopters is equipped with a Safran engine or a licensed product. This level of business is the result of 40 years of cooperation with industry in China.
China’s AC352 completes first flight with WZ16 engine
20 December 2016, Harbin
The first flight of the Avicopter AC352, powered with WZ16 engine, took place today in Harbin. The AC352 is a new seven-ton, twin-engine, multi-purpose rotorcraft jointly developed by Avicopter and Airbus Helicopters. The WZ16 met all the performance targets set for this maiden flight. Known in the west as the Ardiden 3C, the engine has been jointly developed by Safran Helicopter Engines, CAPI and Dongan, parts of the new Aero Engine Corporation of China (AECC) consortium, in a partnership for both development and production.
The WZ16 is a new-generation turboshaft in the 1,500 to 2,000 shp power class. It features a remarkably compact modular architecture, a best in class power to weight ratio with a low cost-of-ownership. Compared to the competition, it offers a 10 % lower fuel consumption.
"Such milestone achieved is the result of closer cooperation between both sides. Building on this, in the future, we will continue our cooperation toward the goal of engine certification at an early date" said Mr Qin Yuchun, President of AECC Dongan."
Commented Safran Helicopter Engines EVP Programs, Cyrille Poetsch, "this flight both secures the AC352 development schedule and marks a major milestone in our partnership with China's aerospace industry. Through this program Safran demonstrates its ability to successfully conduct new-generation engine design as part of an international partnership. This is also a significant step for Avicopter. Since its establishment in 1956, it has grown to become a major rotorcraft manufacturer. We are proud to be aboard their new-generation AC352 and wish them a happy 60th anniversary".
WZ16 will be the first helicopter engine to be certified in parallel, both in China by CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) and in Europe under Ardiden 3C designation, by EASA (European Aviation Safety Agency) under the Ardiden 3C designation. The EASA certification for the Ardiden 3C is expected by end of 2017, and the CAAC certification for the WZ16 in 2018.
With over 500 engines in operation, China represents a strategic market for Safran Helicopter Engines. One of every two Chinese-registered helicopters is equipped with a Safran engine or a licensed product. This level of business is the result of 40 years of cooperation with industry in China.
Last edited: