Chinese Engine Development

From the latest issue of 兵器知识, seems like the J-10 is finally switching to WS-10s? Why would the PLAAF want half their newest jets be grounded due to engine failures?

SamuraiBlue said:

Japanese critics are very much knowledgeable as any other critics. Just because they do not write in English for peers is not a reason you can brush them away as irrelevant.
The quality management people are the ones I listen to the most. I even heard it from people at DJI saying their products are reliable because all parts are imported from Japan. They were most critical about gears and ball bearing saying without Japanese parts their drones would not fly straight.
Since there are no such thing as military grade ball bearings or gears and they are included within almost all moving machinery they would all be affected.
Same with Chinese made car engines in which I hear many models adopts Mitsubishi engines to gain reliability.

I don't only about read them but also hear them directly from the people who actually does quality management for various manufacturers since I work in a related field.

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LOL I do assure you, there are many many drones out there flying very straight without Japanese parts in them. As a matter of fact, Japan imports its military drones from the USA at premium prices. And just so you know, "Japanese critics" is not an acceptable source even if they are knowledgeable in their subjects since what we are talking about requires classified intel into the Chinese military which a "quality management" personnel isn't likely to have. If you ask me for evidence, and I say, "I've heard several American engineers agree with me," that's not acceptable as evidence. Who exactly? What did he say? Where is the proof that he said that? Those 3 are the basic tenants that need to be addressed in order for something to be possibly considered evidence. (We'd then have to discuss his qualifications, clearance, possible biases, and if possible, whether his reasoning is solid.) Here is an example of a good start:

"According to the data obtained from these events (analysis included or attached), we can conclude that the XXX engine cannot exceed XXX kN output reliably and therefore should not be used to power single-engined fighter aircraft."

- John Doe, PhD in material science, director of engine design at XXX company (in 2008 interview with Jane's Defense) [Link provided]

This, "I heard some 'experts' over there said something like that" crap isn't worth 2 pennies to rub together.

@SamuraiBlue

Please do me (us) a favour but don't get me wrong. Your statement was quite solid, when You said:

SamuraiBlue said:

Yeah but we also hear that half of them [WS-10] are in constant repair so....

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Therefore such general claims like "Various Japanese critics in the field of quality management and military analysis", sources from 2009/10 when there were admitted reliability issues or from sources like the WP, that are in no way authorities on anything related to Chinese engines is useless in this debate, they are even more contra productive .. IMO even stupid, since they are no real argument. Also a reference to the Nigerian AF serviceability is off, since this could also (and IMO more likely) related to several other issues in no way related to the Chinese engines.

As such I beg You again, You claimed "half of the WS-10 are in constant repair", so please give us a source or otherwise say it is Your opinion and not a fact.

Deino

dingyibvs said:

From the latest issue of 兵器知识, seems like the J-10 is finally switching to WS-10s? Why would the PLAAF want half their newest jets be grounded due to engine failures?

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Interesting -- that said, I think we've all been teased by J-10s with WS-10 powerplants too many times over the years, and we'll all only believe it once we see production J-10s with WS-10s in the hands of regular units.

dingyibvs said:

From the latest issue of 兵器知识, seems like the J-10 is finally switching to WS-10s? Why would the PLAAF want half their newest jets be grounded due to engine failures?

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like @Bltizo explained ... I would be very much carefully, esp. since the same magazine is not faulty-free: Remember their report on the JL-10 and their claim that by the end of 2016 already 135 JL-10 are operational ???

dingyibvs said:

Are those the same Japanese experts who haven't come up with a decent plane since the Zero? You do realize that Nigeria is in negotiation to acquire JF-17s, right?

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Japan developed the in the mid70's for your information and the Nigerian Air marshal denied any on going negotiations if I read the source correctly.

@SamuraiBlue

Please ... plain and simple I beg You to answer the question concerning Your claim on the WS-10. Nothing more.

Deino

Deino said:

like @Bltizo explained ... I would be very much carefully, esp. since the same magazine is not faulty-free: Remember their report on the JL-10 and their claim that by the end of 2016 already 135 JL-10 are operational ???

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I certainly remember that, but this time the claim has a source in the form of PLAAF Major General Li Ying Hong.

dingyibvs said:

I certainly remember that, but this time the claim has a source in the form of PLAAF Major General Li Ying Hong.

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Interesting.

still wait and see in that case, but a bit more hopeful than other previous cases. We've just had too many false calls in the past about J-10s imminently to be powered by WS-10s that we should be extra cautious now I think

SamuraiBlue said:

...snipped...

Even with the latest J-31 maiden test flight we saw black smoke coming out of the exhaust meaning the engine was not able to maintain complete combustion.

Do I need to go on?

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Huh? What on earth are you saying? J-31 does not have Chinese engines. It always flew with RD-93.