Chinese Engine Development

superdog

Junior Member
In context, is an operating temperature of 900 deg C good enough for low pressure turbine blades? When the highest temperature in advanced jet engines is in excess of 1500 deg C, where does this fit in the picture?
The short answer: Yes. This is not only possible, but could be leaps and bounds better than current TiAl LPT solutions.

If you read the original paper you will see that they directly compared their product to the Ti-48Al-2Cr-2Nb(4822) alloy, which is the exact alloy GE used to make LPT blades on their GEnx Engines (for Boeing 787 and 747-8). These Chinese scientists claimed that their product's creep resistance (resistance to permanent deformation under high strain high temperature and long hours) is 66-68 times better than the 4822 alloy, and service temperature could be around 200C higher, and yet they made it without relying on high-cost seeding methods, so production cost could be kept low.

If we believe what they claimed (it's published on Nature Materials, so we probably should), the implication is that this material is superior than what's being used on the newest GEnx engines. I don't know what the max turbine inlet temp for GEnx engines are, I've heard up to 3000F/1650C but can't confirm. Anyway you get the picture, if GEnx can use 4822 alloy to make LPT, than this new material has the potential to be put on even higher temperature engines, probably 200 degrees higher, and it could replace all LPT as well as HPC blades. The challenge remains at the HPT where they may still need to use Ni-based single crystal materials, but the weight of that part alone is relatively small anyway. Using TiAl for LPT and HPC would represent significant weight reduction, using advanced TiAl with higher yield strength, creep and temp resistance could mean even more weight reduction (less cooling ducts and structural support), and the engine could burn hotter. The result is greater thrust to weight ratio.

Note: the main advantage of TiAl versus Ni-based superalloy is not on mechanical strength, but on weight reduction. TiAl is less than half the weight of Ni-based superalloy per volume, so it is a pretty big weight reduction. CMC is even lighter although not by much (CMC vs TiAl vs Ni-based = 3 vs 4 vs 9 g/cm^3), and it suffers more problems with mechanical strength, so its usage on moving parts are more limited than TiAl despite being lighter and more heat tolerant. Carbon composite materials are the lightest but not that heat resistant, so they're used on cooler parts such as LPC and casing.

Also, don't expect this to make its way onto WS-10/15/20 anytime soon, it will take quite some years for any lab tech to get into production engines. The upgrade versions of the above-mentioned engines or the CJ-1000/2000 may have a chance. Of course, this is to assume that they didn't hide this for years before publishing. ;)
 
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SamuraiBlue

Captain
Also, I think the XF5's moving blades are still using nickel based alloys, not even TiAl (a reasonable choice given their lack of experience in modern aeroengines). You're overestimating how fast new materials can be applied.

Now, I think we should go back to CHINESE engine development.
So much with your speculations with the link I provided that blew it sky high.
 

superdog

Junior Member
So much with your speculations with the link I provided that blew it sky high.
Did you ever read your own link? Do you want to tell me that single spool "engine" is proof in which XF5 is using ceramic blades? I would be appalled if the IHI think that count as enough preparation to let a human fly a completely new aircraft with a completely new engine AND with never tried before ceramic blades. That would be quite inhumane.

And let me remind you again this is the CHINESE engine development thread.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Guys, this is not the first time. He does not actually read the articles that he posts; he picks them because the title sounds like it may say something that he wants it to say, then he posts it as evidence that China's being left behind. He hopes that you don't bother reading it either and you just take his word for it cus he sounds knowledgeable to people who don't bother to fact-check him. Beware, if cornered and asked to explain himself on an issue, he has been known to resort to quoting cartoon characters as final say LOL
 

by78

General
Guys, stop feeding the troll. If SamuraiBlew hasn't learned to at least read his own sources and articles, then there's nothing we can do for him. He's a goner already.

Right, onto the Chinese engines...
 

Zahid

Junior Member
Thanks @superdog

As I suspected, the impact is on weight savings, and not on the temperature of the HPT, which would have been a bigger deal by increasing the fuel efficiency of a jet engine. This development is great, but the real deal would be an increase in the temperature of the combustion section. However, I understand that when that happens, the information would not be published in a scientific journal. We shall see a change in the color of the exhaust.
 

superdog

Junior Member
Thanks @superdog

As I suspected, the impact is on weight savings, and not on the temperature of the HPT, which would have been a bigger deal by increasing the fuel efficiency of a jet engine. This development is great, but the real deal would be an increase in the temperature of the combustion section. However, I understand that when that happens, the information would not be published in a scientific journal. We shall see a change in the color of the exhaust.
AVIC has publicly displayed blades that can withstand 2000k quite some time ago, so I wouldn't be too worried about the HPT.
 
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