Chinese Engine Development

Huh? How the hell are they going to export an F119 or an F135? It doesn't even say parts. I states ENGINES....:confused:o_O I can understand PRC wanting F119 and F135 tech since even the Russians don't have engines of that class, but one person ("Man") with another in China ("Zhang") conspiring to export classified engines even in pieces.....is a long stretch. This not like stealing designs or a few spare-parts. You just don't get F119 and F135 lying around.

But anyway, here is DoJ release -
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Since it is from the DoJ, one can't dismiss it as media BS.

Here is an extracct:


Most likely scenario is this was a sting operation by Federal Agents who approached and convinced the accused that they can obtain the engines and was looking for a buyer, Despicable entrapment tactic but apparently legal in the US. Otherwise, the narrative is just over the top and incredible.

Her major fault was being gullible and greedy.

If this is in fact the case, looks more like the federal government is desperate and need some solid evidence for their narrative.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's because they're lying. It's just like the counterfeit parts story. They made it out that China infiltrated the US's military industrial complex in a plot to sabotage US military hardware and thus China will win the war. Isn't that an act of war especially how deep they made the infiltration and conspiracy out to be? Yet no calls for war from the US Congress. No punishment for China in any way. McCain did demand a tour of the Chinese factory where these parts were made knowing full well China would refuse thus McCain could use it to declare China was hiding a conspiracy thus seen as automatically guilty. What really happened was a US military contractor wanted to make every penny they can and looked for cheaper alternatives from a Chinese vendor that had no knowledge that these parts were going to be used on US military hardware.
That is like a persecutor shifting the murderer's guilt to the weapon store owner who sold the pistol which is totally legal. Why would a persecutor do that? Because the whole trail is a show trail targeting not at the real crime but shutting the store. Same as Li Wenhe's case, "I have no evidence to go through the court with you neither am I aiming at you, but I will make your (Li Wenhe) life miserable if you refuse to cooperate with me against somebody else".

Most importantly, I must say that this report is a farce simply because SO FAR the Justice Department's own indictment stated clearly "exporting the engines", we are talking about something the size and weight of a small car and many of them, something that is not off-the-shelf commercial products on the open market. Something that the possible suppliers (individual in GE etc. or USAF) are totally aware who they can sell, give or ship to. The indictment did not mention design docs, parts etc. which are more doable or realistically be smuggled. At its current shape of the indictment, the whole report sounds like spotting aliens. Until further infor. is released by DoJ (which I doubt), I will have to say that the report is not worth of talking, but rather propaganda. Note, I am not judging the DoJ accusation though at this stage, I am judging the media report.

Of course someone has his "right" to say "anything". But my advice to the rest of us who argue against it is to shun it. Shunning is the best tactic to deal with farce.

Last and the most, an "espionage fairy tale" really has nothing to do with this thread. It is OT and flame-baiting.
 

AeroEngineer

Junior Member
You don't have to be a national citizen to be involved in espionage for that nation, it only requires motivation and nations can provide various motivations which could be in form of positive gain as well as negative gain to the individual like blackmailing them that their relatives within the said country will be imprisoned if they do not cooperate.

Guys don't listen to this .... !! ;)

Again ... no personnel attacks, no politics and no national bashing !

Deino
 
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Most likely scenario is this was a sting operation by Federal Agents who approached and convinced the accused that they can obtain the engines and was looking for a buyer, Despicable entrapment tactic but apparently legal in the US. Otherwise, the narrative is just over the top and incredible.

Her major fault was being gullible and greedy.

If this is in fact the case, looks more like the federal government is desperate and need some solid evidence for their narrative.

As I suspected. Federal Agent enticed Wenxia Man to commit a crime and made the arrest when she took the bait, Wenxia Man was convicted of "conspiring to export and cause the export of fighter jet engines, an unmanned aerial vehicle". Yet, there was never any conspiracy before the federal government entrapped her into the government's fake conspiracy to export and cause the export of fighter jet engines, an unmanned aerial vehicle.


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Her lawyer, Alex Strassman, said Friday that he plans to ask the judge to throw out the jury verdict and find Man not guilty.

Man, who ran a family business with her husband that produces small electronic components used in cell phones and some radio devices, had asked an "industry source" if a certain type of jet fighter engine would be problematic to export, Strassman said. That person reported her to federal authorities and an undercover investigation was launched.

"It was our position that there was no conspiracy and that she was entrapped," Strassman said. "It was pretty clear what would have happened if the government would have left her alone. Nothing more would have happened."
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
It reminds me of a case in the SF Bay Area that made national news. The FBI set up a sting to buy fully automatic AK-47s from a Chinese dealer. They arrested the guy when he delivered and the media had a field day speculating where were the AK-47s headed for? Street gangs? Yeah they could've ended up with street gangs if the FBI were going to give them to street gangs. It was a sting not an intercept. The undercover agent posing as the buyer could've said he was working for a government agency and even showed credentials and then they can lie and say they were headed for street gangs.

We already know from the past the FBI can be as political as the government and will set up someone just so they can claim a win saying they caught a spy thus make it look like they're doing their job.
 

delft

Brigadier
If you believe it, you are something wrong. This is a story for you: Alleged nuclear spy for China should be released, defense says

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KNOXVILLE — Szuhsiung "Allen" Ho isn't a Chinese nuclear spy. He isn't even Chinese.

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in nuclear engineer Ho's first shot at the government's nuclear espionage conspiracy case against him in U.S. District Court in Knoxville.

Ho, his firm, Energy Technology International, and a Chinese nuclear power plant, China General Nuclear Power, are accused in the April indictment of plotting to lure nuclear experts in the U.S. into providing information to allow China to develop and produce nuclear material based on American technology and under the radar of the U.S. government.

The indictment came after former TVA senior manager Ching Ning Guey struck a secret deal more than a year ago to plead guilty to development of special nuclear material outside the U.S. and admitted Ho and the Chinese government paid him to provide technical expertise. Guey's plea deal was unsealed after Ho's arrest.

At least five other engineers at U.S. power companies across the country also were paid to consult, court records filed by Assistant U.S. Attorney Charles Atchley Jr. state. Their names have not been disclosed, nor is it clear whether they face prosecution.

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Ho is jailed pending trial, but Zeidenberg wants him freed. He filed this week
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in which he not only argues Ho isn't a flight risk but attacks the government's case as flawed.

The indictment identifies Ho as a Chinese citizen. Zeidenberg says Ho was born in Taiwan in 1950, received his Ph.D. in nuclear engineering from the University of Illinois in 1980 and, three years later, became a naturalized U.S. citizen.

"Dr. Ho and his wife have resided in Wilmington, Delaware, since 1988," the attorney wrote. "While Dr. Ho travels and spends significant time in China, his permanent residence is a home in Wilmington."

After working for several U.S. power companies, Ho launched ETI in 1996. His client list included firms in the U.S., Taiwan, Japan and China, the attorney stated.

"Dr. Ho's typical clients were public utilities that operated commercial nuclear power plants and sought Dr. Ho's assistance to assure that the plants were operating safety and efficiently," the motion stated. "Dr. Ho has no expertise or experience in the development or production of 'special nuclear material' (which can be used in nuclear weapons)."

Zeidenberg contends Ho twice sought permission from the U.S. Department of Energy to provide consulting services under a special provision of nuclear regulations. He was told his work didn't fall under that provision, so he pressed on, unaware the DOE had notified the Justice Department, the motion stated.

According to the motion, the case involving Ho is the first use of this particular category of espionage-related crimes in the U.S. in 50 years.

"Apparently recognizing that Dr. Ho's conduct did not constitute espionage … the government has tried to shoehorn Dr. Ho's commercial work … into a statute that has never been employed in its prior half-century of existence," the motion stated. "These were not military, weaponized reactors; they are, instead, commercial nuclear power plants that generate electricity."

Atchley has not yet filed a response.

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Looks like being a result of the sickening plea bargaining process.
 

delft

Brigadier
Most likely scenario is this was a sting operation by Federal Agents who approached and convinced the accused that they can obtain the engines and was looking for a buyer, Despicable entrapment tactic but apparently legal in the US. Otherwise, the narrative is just over the top and incredible.

Her major fault was being gullible and greedy.

If this is in fact the case, looks more like the federal government is desperate and need some solid evidence for their narrative.
The result is anti China propaganda and the denial of justice to the accused.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
This particular espionage case is throwing a perfectly good thread down hill. Anything more on this topic will be deleted.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Just found ...

Russia has informed China about the start of work on the engine for the joint project

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"In addition, we informed the Chinese side to start work on a heavy Russian aircraft engines in the segment up to 35 tons, the decision to establish that as recently as in May, was made president of Russia, were allocated the appropriate means. It is almost solves the problem associated with the creation of long-range wide-body aircraft, because the plane is not possible without the engine, "- Rogozin said after a meeting of co-chairmen of the Russian-Chinese intergovernmental commission on preparation of regular meetings of heads of governments of the two countries. Co-chairman of the commission from the Chinese side is the vice-premier of the State Council Wang Yang.

"We agreed that the aircraft Russian and Chinese companies will determine the life of the aircraft, which already operate on the leading lines, above all, is of course, the aircraft of the American and European production. Why is it necessary to define a resource? In order that we should understand the phasing appearance niche, when out of the already operating western aircraft, and when there is a need for a new board and this work will be done in the next few months, "-. said Russian Deputy Prime Minister.

Deino
 
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