Chinese Engine Development

SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
¦^��: Re: Chinese Engine Development

TyroneG said:
I think as of now WS10A is inferior to AL-31F. They say WS10A has longer life expectancy than AL-31F.

But I think the critical issue is the new WS10A has enough percentage of them completely stall or die in mid air.

That's they won't risk it on J10B and J15.

Now people are saying they have upgrade on WS10B and WS15. Who's to say when the real production come and they won't see the same again, the new installed engine with enough percentage of them die in mid air.

I think that's real issue. It's not about wear and tear and life expectancy or anything like that.

Ws10A is less reliable than AL-31F and WS10B , WS15 could also have same issues.

It's a Production issue.

I think China should stuff their WS10A on UAV, Trainer jet to test the heck out it, if stalled in mid air, just eject and dump the planes. The hurdle hasn't overcome yet. Big deployment and more real testing are needed.

I would rather see China completely surmount the engine issue than seeing J20, J31 and HK6 flying. Those are fools golds.


I rather see WS13 powered JF-17 fighters exporting in large quantity throughout the world and J15 powered by WS10A enter full production rate. WS19 powered transport plane. That's more meaningful.
Click to expand...

`Despite it being used more, the Al-31 is unlikely to be superior to an engine with higher thrust and longer service life.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
TyroneG said:
I think as of now WS10A is inferior to AL-31F. They say WS10A has longer life expectancy than AL-31F.

But I think the critical issue is the new WS10A has enough percentage of them completely stall or die in mid air.

That's they won't risk it on J10B and J15.

Now people are saying they have upgrade on WS10B and WS15. Who's to say when the real production come and they won't see the same again, the new installed engine with enough percentage of them die in mid air.

I think that's real issue. It's not about wear and tear and life expectancy or anything like that.

Ws10A is less reliable than AL-31F and WS10B , WS15 could also have same issues.

It's a Production issue.

I think China should stuff their WS10A on UAV, Trainer jet to test the heck out it, if stalled in mid air, just eject and dump the planes. The hurdle hasn't overcome yet. Big deployment and more real testing are needed.

I would rather see China completely surmount the engine issue than seeing J20, J31 and HK6 flying. Those are fools golds.


I rather see WS13 powered JF-17 fighters exporting in large quantity throughout the world and J15 powered by WS10A enter full production rate. WS19 powered transport plane. That's more meaningful.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? There are over a hundred J-11Bs/BSs in service each hauling two WS-10As, meaning for each aircraft there are at least two engines assigned (more depending on what the PLAAF policy on spares is)

The fact that they're not fitting WS-10As on J-10B or J-15 can be down to any number of issues, but if there is a significant reliability issue PLAAF won't be fitting J-11Bs with it, and if there is a production issue... well they've produed 200+ WS-10As, so the numbers speak for themselves.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
TyroneG said:
I think as of now WS10A is inferior to AL-31F. They say WS10A has longer life expectancy than AL-31F.

But I think the critical issue is the new WS10A has enough percentage of them completely stall or die in mid air.

That's they won't risk it on J10B and J15.
Click to expand...
If WS-10A is that risky, it wouldn't be deployed so widely on J-11B and be used on prototypes.

TyroneG said:
Now people are saying they have upgrade on WS10B and WS15. Who's to say when the real production come and they won't see the same again, the new installed engine with enough percentage of them die in mid air.

I think that's real issue. It's not about wear and tear and life expectancy or anything like that.

Ws10A is less reliable than AL-31F and WS10B , WS15 could also have same issues.

It's a Production issue.
Click to expand...
I fail to see how you can conclude WS-10 is less reliable than AL-31. AL-31, specifically AL-31FN has its share of problems, too. Lubricant problems have caused the crash of few J-10 and have had pilots killed. This has been well documented.


TyroneG said:
I think China should stuff their WS10A on UAV, Trainer jet to test the heck out it, if stalled in mid air, just eject and dump the planes. The hurdle hasn't overcome yet. Big deployment and more real testing are needed.
Click to expand...
Err, no. When the engine stalls, you want the aircraft to fly back then so you can examine the problem up close. A burnt wreckage is of little help.

TyroneG said:
I would rather see China completely surmount the engine issue than seeing J20, J31 and HK6 flying. Those are fools golds.


I rather see WS13 powered JF-17 fighters exporting in large quantity throughout the world and J15 powered by WS10A enter full production rate. WS19 powered transport plane. That's more meaningful.
Click to expand...
That made no sense. Just because there are still obstacles in engine development, that doesn't mean everything else has to be stopped.
 
M

montyp165

Senior Member
It's the notion that unless every Chinese aircraft is flying with domestic only designs the design is a failure, which I consider to be an absolutely false and erroneous assumption, particularly since at this point engineering and manufacturing quality are far less of an issue than other considerations.
 
L

Lion

Senior Member
It seems that China has not signed any new engine with Russian for 2013. Consider China Air Force fleet is getting bigger and bigger. Appetite for new engine is getting bigger and bigger. It's either the AL-31 overhaul engine plant in chengdu is damn efficient or domestic engine is supplying well for its own fleet.
 
S

Skywatcher

Captain
It might have been cheaper to keep on using AL-31s for the J-10B for whatever reason. The PLAAF does have a budget, like everyone else.
 
L

latenlazy

Brigadier
Equation said:
If that's the case, like "Lion" said in before, how come China are not purchasing any new engine orders from Russia in 2013 considering that the demands are high?
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Not all the AL-31s China ordered in the last two years have been delivered yet. It's possible they foresee production meeting demands in the future, but not in the interim.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
latenlazy said:
Not all the AL-31s China ordered in the last two years have been delivered yet. It's possible they foresee production meeting demands in the future, but not in the interim.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but still the AL-31s is just a JV (Junior Varsity) meanwhile the WS-10 is the Varsity squad. China needs an interim engine like the AL-31 for practicing purpose, basic testing, and tactical strategy development for the new planes, while saving the best like the WS-10 for game day when it really counts.
 
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